98 CBR F3 Project Bike (SSSA, Car Rim, R1 Tail, F4i front) - Page 2 - CBR Forum - Enthusiast forums for Honda CBR Owners


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  #11  
Old 03-31-2011, 09:13 AM
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How do you go about putting a car rim on a bike? Do you have to have one made that LOOKS like the car rim? If you actually put the car rim on, won't the "back" of the wheel be showing? Not sure how much I'd like that. It's your bike though! Keep us posted!
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  #12  
Old 03-31-2011, 02:02 PM
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The setup on the VFR uses a bolt pattern similar to a 2000 civic. That car had a lot of different aftermarket rims... it's a 4x100mm bolt pattern. The one thing you need to know is the offset of the rim prior to mounting it on the swing arm. The tire is a 200x50x17... supposedly those will fit a 7" rim. The offset is important when calculating the center of the bike according to the wheel hub, and rim. I will need to have a spacer created to bridge that distance. Also, the rims spoke shape may impact mounting because much like an car/truck, the brake assembly will be technically inside the rim area. So if the rim is too small, or too tight a space then there will be some issues with space.

This is covered here:
CBRRR's car wheel conversion

I still have to order the rim, going to drop into a couple shops tomorrow and see what i can find.

I was just reading a couple posts about people having problems getting the stock pivot bolt out, now im kinda worried my grand plans may be foiled by a rusty bolt

Also, does anyone know the size of bearings used in the frame that supports the pivot/swing arm bolt? From what i understand the VFR bolt is longer and has more girth.

The solution is either lathe the bolt down, or get new bearings. Im going to get a digital calliper tomorrow to get proper measurements (pending i can get everything off)
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  #13  
Old 03-31-2011, 04:18 PM
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nvanvlymen,
I don't even worry about what people think or say. Of course I have heard at the bad comments about my bike. But the thing is its my bike and its the way I want it. So brush those haters off and keep up the good work. If you have any questions about the SSSA just pm me. Also I made a video about my set up on youtube.
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  #14  
Old 03-31-2011, 05:05 PM
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I hope you didn't think I was being a hater. I was just curious.
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  #15  
Old 03-31-2011, 11:26 PM
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haha, easy everyone... No, TommyHammond, your not a hater, and it wasn't directed at you. No one has given me an issue for what i want to do to the bike yet. Besides, with my streak of automotive modding, this is what people expect from me anyhow.

So, got some good progress tonight!

Rear tire... off and did a test fit for the SSSA. There are definitely some technical challenges that will need to be overcome but thats all with time.

Everything was pretty simple to do, I followed this tutorial for removing the back tire. It went pretty smoothly.



I had an issue with the plastic tire fender thing that was on top of the swing arm, one Phillips screw just didnt want to cooperate... so i cut the plastic around it, and that was the end of that. I don't have too many progress shots at this point, i was filming the whole 3 hours of work tonight. I will make some stills when i get a chance.

Here is a pic of the OEM CBR swing arm bolt next to the VFR swing arm bolt. You can see the difference in width and length.



Now, this is the funny part, or it was funny to me. I have to have the VFR bolt machined down to be the same length as the OEM, and re-threaded so it will be a match fit. I was just looking around the mess on the floor, when i looked at the rear wheel axle bolt.



Notice anything strange going on here? The top is the OEM bolt, the bottom is the VFR bolt... the middle is the rear CBR OEM axle. ???? hmmm says me... I tried it out in the VFR and its a perfect fit, and its shorter... mind you not short enough... But the big thing is that the left lip of the bolt is a closer match to the OEM bolt that it would be a better setup than the VFR. AND if for whatever reason i need a new swing arm bolt, i've now got a spare!

Here is the first technical challenge. The swing arm bolt for the VFR wont fit the CBR frame.



Obviously it was meant for the VFR bolt. But with a little machining it will work 100% and since there are no bushings or bearings, i wont have to worry about making a custom sleeve or bearings to keep using the CBR bolt in the VFR swingarm. One guy i read tried to make a custom sleeve that would wrap around the CBR bolt and still give a tight fit inside the VFR swingarm. I would rather just bore out a little material on the frame and be done with it. Of course, if i were to ever go back to stock, i would need to make two sleeves to counteract the increase in the holes diameter. But whatever, i'll worry about it when i want to go back to being stock.

Sans swing arm.

Last edited by nvanvlymen; 05-09-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2011, 12:19 AM
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The next thing i wanted to do, following VALKIE's walkthrough, was to do a test fit of the VFR arm.



I didn't have anything to prop up the arm, except a box of hobby cement... the kind you let your kids make hand prints in and then wrap as gifts for their grandparents gardens... lol.

I didn't want to bang in the end cap sleeve that would close up the interior of the swing arm... I couldn't be sure I would be able to get it back out again.

[picture needed]

Basically there is a 1 3/4" metal sleeve that goes on the end of the swingarm that prevents the inner sleeve from moving... it gives the swingarm bolt some free rotation without needing bushings/bearings.

I want to clean up the arm a little before I seal things up. Some new grease and a good steel bristled brush to clean off containments before i paint it. That and i will need to get a new shock mount welded to the top of the arm. Anything inside the arm is prone to damage (and frankly, this VFR 750 arm was a very tough to find in north america.. i don't really want to wreck anything unintentionally)

I used the stock CBR bolt to get the swing arm into place, moving my chain around so i can see if things would be lined up and flush without trouble.

Technical Challenge 2: The stock shock linkage will not work without some additional tinkering



So, as you can see with the arm in, and the stock linkage attached to the frame and shock, the first bolt on the linkage is hitting the side of the swing arm. Will this be a big deal? I don't know, probably. The larger issue is that once i lift the arm to match the OEM swing arm position, that bolt is really rubbing. I can move the shock up a little to get that bolt away from the swing arm, but the shock really doesn't want to shift too much in a vertical movement. Some, but not a lot.

Another shot of the front shock bolt hitting the swing arm.


Likely what I will do is get the fabricators to make me another linkage that is slightly shorter. I will mock something up in cardboard first to make sure the travel of the arm is not terribly affected.

Shot of the OEM VFR shock mount. The VFR's shock was more on the vertical position vs. the diagonal the CBR F3's are. Apparently there is a VFR 750 that has a shock mount on the top! I wish i had known that... it may be they belong to the VFR 800's? Not too sure.


Man, thats mighty sexy


So, tomorrows to-do list:



1a. Get a rough measurement on the needed spacer for the swing arm. The distance between the swing arm and the brake side frame. I would rather the spacer be a bit bigger and have to trim it down.

1b. Hit the local adult toy shop (SAYAL Electronics - Your Source For New And Surplus Electronic Components - We Buy Your Surplus!) and get myself a digital caliper to help with step 1a.

[picture needed of spacer and swing arm gap]

2. Bore out the bolt hole (pivot hole) to match that of the VFR bolt diameter.

3. I need to double check the angle of the stock F3 swingarm to make sure when i design the new mount that it will match. I may hold off on this until i get the F4i shock... just to be sure.

4. Take a trip to the local fabricators and welders in my area and get a quote on doing the work to the swing arm. I don't suspect it will be much... you never know though. Also, see if they will cut down the old wheel axle bolt and re-thread it. There is a stunt bike shop not too far from there, I will drop in and do the same. they may have a better way around the shock linkage.

I suppose my next question is... do i really need to have that dogbone linkage attach to the shock linkage and bike frame? can i not just have the shock mounted right to the swing arm? Never mind, i just figured that one out on my own. You need to keep the same angle on the shock because the top shock mount will not allow it to travel up or down very much.

5. take a trip to some tire and rim shops, get a quote on the rims I'm now looking at:

Konig- Freefall


Konig- Lace black


Beyern Mesh Black


Maxxim S906 Black


Akita Wheels AK 6 460 B


6. Take off front cowl and old gauge pod.

Anyhow, good progress tonight. Will update the needed images tomorrow.

Last edited by nvanvlymen; 05-09-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-01-2011, 08:38 AM
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hell yea man. your making some great progress!!!
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  #18  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:52 AM
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this is great, i cant wait to see which rim you pick out. there is always so many choices. there is few in there that i like.

you know that there is shops that will make the rim you need for you, more expensive im sure but it will fit perfect.
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  #19  
Old 04-01-2011, 11:00 PM
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So, got some more work done. Took the day off (was my b-day) so i opted to work on the bike all day. More or less finished 30 minutes ago.

I picked out my rear rim. Going with the Konig white lightning. I was at the shop this morning and the first rim in my previous post is discontinued.

After some thought, i wanted a white rim, but also wanted a machined lip.


You don't see many of them on the road. I will do some black decals on the rim to make it pop a little more.

The big job today was to get the supplies for the side arm. I figured out the degree at which the old swing arm sat, was -12 degrees with the stock shock. I expect it to be more when the F4i shock comes in. So i set up the SSSA and got it lined up at the same degree. Still had problems with the shock linkage bolt hitting the side. Then it dawned on me, I didnt tap in the end cap into the side arm... Im sure im not using the right term for this thing.



So i picked up some axle and bearing grease, packed it up with the pivot sleeve and tapped her in using a hammer ( i used a piece of wood to protect the end of the insert )



Good and tight, but easy enough to take out, as i had to because the first time i did this, i forgot to put the sleeve in. whoops.

The other end is kinda strange, and this is where you need the spacer. I don't have a pic, but there is just a rubber gasket/dustcover protecting the bushings, its about 7-8mm deep, and has the same diameter of the metal sleeve that sits inside the swing arm.

I thought I saw some metal tubes at the hardware store last time i was there, so while I was out getting the grease, i stopped by and picked the tube up. They had two flavors, steel and aluminum. I opted for the steel thinking it was a stronger option, a bit on the heavier gauge. But it was a perfect fit for what i needed as the spacer (at least in outter diameter. The inner diameter is a bit larger than the swing arm bolt. But when i pack it full of grease, it wont matter, and it's so small that i'm not going to bust myself over it.

It came in a 36" length, so i can have a couple different tries making the spacer a perfect fit. The tube itself was $14 so i couldn't lose.

[picture needed of tube]

At the same time, I picked up a large metal bore for expanding the pivot opening on the CBR frame.


This is a shot of essentially what i used to make the openings fit the VFR swingarm bolt.

The drill bit measures 3/4" or 19.05mm. The problem here is that the swing arm bolt is 20mm. so the opening needs to be a little over 20.5mm to have a nice snug fit.

With a little patience, and about 5 hours, I drilled out the brake side pivot opening. The drill bit went in smooth, but would get caught on an edge and jerk hard, so i had to put on the second handle to keep it steady. After i opened it up, I went about smoothing the inside with the dremel and the half round metal file. The metal file was good and smoothing out the edges, but it left a bit of a bump in the middle of the opening that needed to be leveled out. The dremel has all sorts of griding bits, so i got one that was a bit smaller than the opening i was working on, and went about moving it around in a clockwise motion, with the dremel on full blast. The thing heats up real quick at that speed. I spent about 3 hours on the one side using just the metal file, until i realized the dremel bit did the same work in a fraction of the time. I used the rounded bit to smooth out the openings of the pivot hole so there would be no rubbing.

I managed to do the clutch side in about an hour total. Knowing the dremel was the way to go. The two holes lined up with a little bit of re-working the openings.







All in all, im pretty happy with the progress today. I have an appointment with a welder tomorrow to have the bolt cut down and re-threaded to fit, as i need about 1 1/2" taken off. I also have to re-measure the swing arm while its mounted. Since i put in the metal end cap, it will have given me just the needed room to get the shock linkage bolt to clear the swing arm. Then it's just a matter of figuring out the size of the shock mount, making it out of cardboard and taking it to the welder.

Once i get it all mounted up tomorrow, i will be able to figure out my current hub offset, and knowing the rim offset, i can then start ordering up the wheel spacer that will line everything up!

I have to say, not only am i def from machining the holes in the frame, but my hands are sore from the drill jerking and the dremel burning my hands... All in the name of modding.

12am. signing off.

Last edited by nvanvlymen; 05-09-2013 at 11:14 PM.
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2011, 10:34 PM
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little bit of work today after taking the weekend off.

I got a couple parts today, my new "used" f4i gauges, the R1 seat and R1 under fairing.

I started today knowing that i need to get to the welders by wednesday to make a bit of a deadline. I want to start focusing on the f4/r1 conversion soon... and i need to get the sssa out of the way.

Last friday, i bought a 1"x36" steel tube. Perfect fit inside the swingarm, I just needed to cut it down to size.



Cut down to size. This was my second attempt.. The first attempt was to just get a smaller size so i could judge how much bigger it would need to be. As is, you can see how small it is, just under 12mm.



And installed. Fits like a glove. with less than 1mm play overall, i think thats an acceptable range. Besides, once i get the bolt in there, and tighten her up, im sure it will be fine.



What your looking at there is the right side of the swingarm, the inner right side of the bikes frame, and the spacer in between.

I also ordered my new Konig White Lightning rim in. Though its been discontinued, New York had two available. I will call the shop back tomorrow to double check that its a 4x100mm fitment. The offset is +40mm, tomorrow i will figure out what the rest to get a spacer made.

On a separate note. I need some assistance for those who have done the f3 to f4i conversion.



This is the brake side, I'm seeing all this wiring, and i know the f4i plastic wont cover it all. I'm really hoping someone can give me some advice on how to proceed ... and if they re-located any of the wiring? I also see a fairing bolt spot welded to the frame, is that something i can remove? It just seems awfully messy. I tried to do a quick test fit with the fairing i have, but because the bikes up on jacks, i cant get an accurate fit near the bottom.

I took off the front fairing too, what a mess of wires. I'm half tempted to take all the black tape wrapping off and re-do it.

Last edited by nvanvlymen; 05-09-2013 at 11:15 PM.
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