I will reiterate, just for the record, that i think the crash with the girl could have been avoided pretty easily. If that bothers you, oh well, i'm going to say it. MSF or not, that is kind of a dumb crash no matter how you look at it. Speed + trying to show off = grassy field. How many times have you seen a car overshoot a turn? Maybe never?

A cager pulling a left in front of you, a deer shooting across the road, a big patch of gravel? Probably not avoidable (maybe so, though).

Above all things the MSF teaches you to respect the machine, drive carefully and defensively, and expect the worst. It isnt going to change a squid or show you how to weave in and out of traffic and live. If everyone drove their bikes like they do their cars (i dont see too many cars splitting lanes or weaving +30 over the speed limit) then out rates would be a heck of a lot lower.

 

Flip, come on, its really easy to sit back in front of your computer and say the crash could have been easily avoided; you know what, they all can be, just leave the bike in the garage. The fact of the matter is that we ride sport bikes, most are factory race bikes with a license plate. Most people don't buy them to go slow on, if you did, you might has well have got a cruiser, as it would be more comfortable. This is a dangerous sport, and yes believe it or not, we all make mistakes. I'd venture a guess that 99% of them are mental, and basically poor judgement. Should you ride fast on roads you don't know, probably not, but most of us have done it anyway, and just because we got lucky and didn't run into trouble like CBR Freek did doesn't mean we are better or smarter riders, it means the moons were in alignment and we got lucky. I will reiterate this point again, the majority of our bretheren DO NOT intentionally do things to crash their bikes, and certainly not with a passenger on the back. I have read CBR's version of the accident again, and I really don't see were you get that he was showing off. If you don't get excited anytime you see twisties coming up, you don't need the bike you own, its what they were built for, and a spirited ride through any twisties, whether you know the road or not, can be hazardous.

It just seems like you, amungst others, have this holyier than though attitude; and maybe you ride the speed limit and obey all the traffic laws all the time, and perhaps you use everything you learned in MSF everyday; if that is the case, I will not fault you for that, its your choice. But by the same token, you are basically saying CBR Freek was stupid, and I just don't see it that way; shoulda woulda coulda? definitely, but remember it could happen to you as easy as it did him, and if you ride long enough the odds of it happening continue to increase. All I am saying is lighten up, the constructive critisim doesn't need to be so 'your a dumb a$$, sell your bike'. Geez, let's not be so critical all the time.

 

i think every state has different courses....in PA the basic rider course is 15 hours...5 hours of dicussion, 10 hours of riding "instruction" on what the picture on the site looks like..its pretty much a 50cc "cruiser" going in circles and around cones...that wouldnt be helpful to me..that would just be boring/exhausting...i dont learn well from "discussion" and if its not one on one instruction..i dunno..i would feel like even if i werent doing it right..they wouldnt notice. also..they give you the written test and whatnot so you can get your license..thats about the only thing appealing to me about this course

now they do offer an "experienced rider course" however...it is a 5 hour class where they pretty much just ride around together according to the discription...how you gonna learn anything from that? also..those with permits cause get their license afterwards...yippee...

i dunno..i see where the class is valueable...but i also think people shouldnt get preached to about taking the course....everyone that rides knows the course is out there....its not a hidden knowledge that you can only get passed on to you if you crash and post it up here so everyone can tell you about it....and i understand some people are just sharing their experience with the class....but every class is different even from one DMV to the next...i know the instructor at the DMV closest to where i live is a total ***..there is no way i would learn anything from him except how to get really pissed off....i dunno...just my opinion though

 

I agree. When Freek posted the story i mentioned some MSF stuff, thought about it for 30 seconds, then edited it with a 'sorry for sounding like a dick, i do feel bad for your crash' followup.

The only reason i felt like i needed to rant here was because appearently even THAT wasnt nice enough for some people. If Wood wants to start something over my response to Freek's accident then i'll go ahead and say what i was really thinking.

I didnt immediately respond to Freek with a lecture and a rant, but when someone like Wood calls me out, i'll pull out all the stops.

 

Cool. and good luck on the bout with Wood....I am sure that will be entertaining

 

Everybody has had plenty of time and space to voice an opinion on this subject. I think that the topic is valid so I'm keeping the thread but I'm locking it because it's starting to go down a bad path.