I can see wood's point, and I think the problem is that many new riders just got out of the MSF course, and feel the need to share their new found knowledge with more experienced riders. Nothing wrong with that, this forum is set up for everyone to speak their mind. I do think however, that newer riders need to understand that after someone just crashed (think thats the appropriate MSF term) the last thing they want is advice from a rookie. For those people who didn't really know much about riding, I think the MSF course is a good thing, I just took it, and I have ridden most of my life (I am 41) but it had been a few years since my last scoot. The class was okay, and I can't say I learned anything new, but it reminded me of some of the basic skills. And guess what, that is all that it is meant for. It is the basic rider course, not the accident prevention course. Time in the saddle is the only thing that makes you a better rider, be it on the street, the track or in more advanced classes. And even then, the odds are you will still crash. I know some people have never been down, other have been down more than once, sometimes its do to our mistake, sometimes its beyond our control. I really wish that people that post to this site would keep these things in mind, and remember, lets be happy that our compadres that have crashed are well enough to share their experiences, that is really all that matters. People tend to just be too judgemental.....

 

I don't care who you are, the MSF has something to teach everyone. There are a lot of fundamentals that you take from the basic rider safetly class that will always apply, regardless of what level or type of riding you are doing. I found the class to be very useful, even after years of riding without ever having crashed (as I furiously knock on wood). In Ohio the class only costs $25 and all the classes are scheduled full within a week of opening the registration. It's a huge value, and I highly recommend it for anyone who is less than a professional motorcycle rider.

 

The point of the MSF isn't to become a great rider, but rather to give you a good understanding of safety related issues, and to be able to ride a bike before you have to ride one home from the dealership.

What you're supposed to do after the MSF is realize that there are risks involved and that you'll have to manage them yourself.

I took the CAnadian safety course... I assume it's about the same thing.

I've had accidents. If I had of applied what I learned in the MSF I probably wouldn't have. Instead I was ridding like a tool. Speeding, out riding my vision, and all before I had properly warmed the tires. These are all things I made a mistake in doing... all things that meant the accident was entirely preventable.

If you haven't taken the MSF or the advanced rider course (around here it is actually supposed to be really good) then it's not a bad idea. The MSF won't hurt you.

What we as a collective group have to recognize is that some of us are good riders. Some of us are great riders... some of us think we're great riders and we out ride our real skill level. That's fine until we get into a tight spot and then suddenly we're in trouble.

If you're going to ride on the street like it is a race track - educate yourself to the best of your ability. Take the MSF. Take the advanced rider course. Listen to experienced riders (with a grain of salt) - take a track day (or two)...

There are too many variables on the road. Buying a new bike and wadding it in the dealership driveway is laughable - wadding the new bike in the first turn at 60mph because you didn't know what you were doing isn't. For the first few years we're learning ALOT all the time... taking the MSF can expose us to other people's experiences WITHOUT having to find out the hard way.

For a note:
- all gear all the time
- ride only as fast as you can see ( or what the speed sign says of course )
- you can be right - dead right... sometimes it's best not to be right.
- MSF won't hurt... and even if the only thing you get is cheaper insurance it's worth it.

I guess to really answer the question.

Some stories I hear I think - wow - that was stupid. I can say that because I wasn't there, and I can also recognize the stupid things I've done. Like ranting. The point is - when someone has an accident and doesn't identify the root cause then it is ok to explain what you think... otherwise they'll just go and do it again which doesn't make sense. Maybe this person will never listen or understand the point that was trying to be made... but maybe some other young rider will get it. Identify your weaknesses and address them... let other people learn from them.

 

Woot gets it

 

this thread is retarded, so people mention the msf when someone crashes.... big deal if they havent taken it they should. and after so long of riding everyone can develop bad habbits in which maybe a refresher course might help.

 

I was going to take an MSF course for free in Evansville, Indiana. Hell everyone was taking it for free around here.

 

I really think everyone is missing the point....at least the one I was trying to make.....and I think the thread originator was in the same boat, but that's for him to answer. The point is simple, we play in a high risk environment, and crashes happed, even to the best most knowledgable riders. The point is that everytime someone posts about a crash they had, we all put on our problem solving hats.....the posts don't say, hey i crashed, by the way can you critic my riding style and abilities. I know that if I make a stupid mistake, and share what happened, I am not necessarily looking for everyone to tell me what I did wrong. I already realize that. While constructive criticism is good, and beneficial, there is a time and place for it, and we seem to want to change the sharing of an experience to forum to an opportunity to heist the thread and start a debate about another topic. Bottom line on this tangent, is the MSF beneficial for all, definitely, would it have prevented this accident; taking the class and using what you learn is an individual deal, I seriously doubt that wood intentionally crashed with his girlfriend on the back. He made a mistake in judgement, which he admitted, and is very lucky that they made it through. How about a little kudo's for Wood, he had the sense to limit the effects of the crash by finding the grassy field. I am sure that his girlfriend is thankful for that. Once again, I say, Wood...glad you are okay. I don't need to say anything else, cuz I think Wood learned a lot from the experience.

 

Not arguing that point AZ just saying that by posting about a crash on an internet forum you kinda invite responses. People are gonna respond with what they know. So while I sympathize with the fact that it sux to crash ... and it sux even worse when you hear "ya coulda prevented it by ..." the truth is that by posting it in the first place you sort of invite a response like that.

Now to repeat: a mean spirited reply especially to a crash post will in no way be tolerated. But peeps that genuinely try to help ... c'mon ... I've read all the stuff you guys are talking about and haven't seen anything but guys sympathizing and trying to help.

Now everybody put on their big boy pants and get on with riding

 

I could not have said said it better my self and by the way i think that was cbr freek that went down with his old lady. i posted this cause i saw a few people post if you would have, msf said, and it kind of got to me. thats all

 

Not to put fuel back to the fire, but I agree with most of the points made here, I definitely agree with Wood that the crashes he's described are not something the msf class prepares you for. I just started riding last week after taking the MSF class, I can say I'm guilty of mentioning the MSF thing in two posts, one in a thread showing a video of a guy who starts riding down a street going about 10 mph and heads straight into a tree in less than 5 seconds, shows no sign of letting off the throttle, stopping, or turning and for that matter I honestly don't believe he took an MSF class as he wouldn't have hit a tree going 5-10mph if he did. Second post was in regards to the new member post by cbr_nasty who stated he just bought his first bike, a brand new 2006 600 RR and after his post we all made our usual welcome to the board then people started posting in the same thread a week later that he had yet to post anything after his original post, hoping he's ok, etc. etc. and I did mention that I hoped he was ok because that could be a lot of bike for someone who hasn't ridden before/ taken an msf class.

So..... If I ticked you off mentioning MSF classes in those two posts which I don't think are anything close to the crashes you've experienced/discussed then sorry bro. It was not my intention, and like AZ said, a lot of new riders just took the MSF class and want to mention their experience, which I did mention my experience in an entirely seperate post and being I just took it and its fresh in my mind, I can't help but make reference to it when I saw the two posts I mentioned them at. I now see what people are saying about a lot of the MSF references but I also agree with chain, that being on an online message board you do invite an open response to your post, albeit hopefully not a mean spirited one which I was not trying to be when I mentioned it.

But to talk on the crashing in the corners again, I definitely don't feel the basic rider MSF course prepares you for that, I do feel it's good for new riders/old riders getting back riding again/people trying to break bad habits or improve their safe driving skills, which is what describes most of the people that were in my MSF class. Being that I just got out of the MSF Class, I've since rode around mainly at night with less traffic practicing my riding skills and am still hesitant to get on the twisties or tight corner rodes at a high speed as like you've mentioned Wood, the MSF class doesn't prepare you for that, so I plan on practicing just riding normal for now and when I build up enough confidence to take on the corners quickly, I will.

To all that have crashed, sorry to hear it, glad your ok, if your not back riding yet, hopefully you will be soon!