From the footage of the race in the UK, it wasn't even clear that they had made contact, that includes the super slow motion replays from different angles.

Marques does have a very aggressive style of riding, but that's what makes him so entertaining to watch.

If he gets reined in too much, we'll just have a return to the 'Lorenzo and Pedrosa show', which will be no good for the sport at all.

The racing in Moto 2 and 3 is already far more entertaining!

 

Having read more about the accident, it would appear to be a 'freak' occurrence and is as much to blame on the Honda design, than on anything else.

The crash was caused by the severing of the traction control wire for the rear wheel, not caused directly by the contact between Marquez and Pedrosa.

 

Exactly. Sorry, CJ, I can't agree with you on this one. But that article you posted from BIKEME - well, that's how I feel. Great article.

I don't know of another GP rider who has had shirts and memorabilia made that states people hate them like Dani Pedrosa has.








Enough of the Pedrosa bashing though - I'm just saying that ^^^ points out that he (Dani Pedrosa) is different in that a lot of people don't like him as a racer/ambassador to the sport. And that article puts it into words very nicely. Although - I'm not sure it's fair to say he NEVER battles. Brno last year was pretty good. But it hasn't helped him that he has Alfonso Puig behind him at all times. I think that's why a lot of people don't like him off the bat.



But as far as the incident, I agree with you hawkwind. I mean, Emmett and Harris (after the replays mind you) weren't sure whether or not MM93 hit him.

With the silverstone incident - I agree that he should have been penalized. There were flags waving, and riders were immobile. But it's not the case with an incident on track. I'm not saying that riders can defend themselves from others, but there are too many variables to consider. Other people at Repsol said that Dani did in fact brake earlier than he had previously. They barely touched - and Marquez was trying to avoid Dani Pedrosa all together. If Dani Pedrosa had got on the brakes where he normally does at that corner, nothing would have happened.

Rossi never got repremanded for punting Sete off the track at Jerez - and Rossi was as out of control as ever on the bike. I think that was the first time anyone had seen the "leg off" in the corner and it was using Sete as a barrier. And Sete was physically hurt.






This used to be the tough guy sport. And we've all sort of complained at one point or another that the racing is dull. It's because of the '10, '11, and '12. There were hardly any battles between the aliens. MM93 is a breath of fresh air.


My opinion wouldn't be different if Pedrosa's sensor had not have broken, or if Pedrosa ended up more seriously injured. The TC caused that crash. Ducati has wheel sensors on both sides in case something like that happens (maybe Honda should think about that). However, if Marc had barreled into the side of Dani trying to purposefully knock him out - my opinion would be different. I don't see the danger in what he did at all. And I have seen the aliens (all of them - Casey, Rossi, JLo, and Dani do that exact move)


Rossi hits Casey coming out of the corkscrew. Casey pratically runs into the back of Rossi in the last corner (only Casey drops the bike)


JLo and Dani come together at the 1:10 mark


1:35 - Stoner running into Bautista. 2:45 Bautista and Cal coming together.



It's just inherent to the sport. Marc can be aggressive, but that move wasn't aggressive. He didn't "stick it in there" on Dani, he avoided him by standing it up and running off track.

 

Oh don't get me wrong I don't think MM should be penalized, but if they are going to then don't bench him for a race. From what I saw it was blatantly obvious that they made contact but to me it looked like MM came into the corner hotter than he intended and tried to avoid him (apparently DP braked sooner) and they contacted.

Yes his style of riding is aggressive; when I say immature and inexperienced I don't mean them with negative connotations, I mean you can tell his aggressive style compared to that of riders that have been in motogp longer, he is willing to risk more for victory. Trust me I want Honda to win the constructors cup and I see Yamaha get ever closer, especially now that DP picked up a whopping 0 points this past race. I come from watching F1 so I'm used to them dropping the hammer on stuff smaller than this. I actually stopped watching when everyone was complaining about Vettle being so damn fast and the FIA penalizing him.

Something else to think about, if this happened to another rider do you think they would have been able to save the bike?

Edit: Just reread my post and yea it sounds like I'm shaking the pick axe a bit, not my intention. It was more along the lines of his Crew Chief being like "hey WTF. Don't risk war to win the battle."

 

Right on, I agree with that totally. I can imagine it's hard with a 20 yr old rookie as far as that goes. He definitely did throw it away at Mugello.

The F1 thing is kind of my point. It's gotten pretty boring, there isn't a whole lot of action. It's basically an endurance time trial... I don't want any kind of motorcycle racing turning into that. I mean, they had to do the whole DRS thing to try and make "some racing" possible. And then, they only have certain DRS zones. I don't know, it's cool as far as the tech goes, but there's not near as much racing. And with the level of electronics in Motogp, it's already getting to the point to where it's not as much about the rider and machine as it is about the machine, with a rider on it.

As far as another rider being able to save it - I don't know. These things are crazy complicated. I remember at Estoril, radio waves interfered with Hayden's ECU (they have GPS) - and the bike literally forgot where it was at on the track and made the thing impossible to ride. The throttle was choppy because it kept changing settings for different areas on the track. All of the settings change per corner - per lap - per every variable (tire wear, fuel load, power available from the fuel amount left, etc.) And Ducati was praising him for being able to finish the race without an incident.

Hayden

The ECU plays out different scenarios per lap in which it decides what the rider will need as conditions change (tires, fuel load burns off (for weight), how much fuel is left for power, etc) in the following laps. It then takes the future outcomes into the ECU, and slightly alters what's happening NOW to the bike. It's insane.

MotoGP Electronics: Even More Complex Than You Thought | MotoMatters.com | Kropotkin Thinks


I mean, who knows, the power delivery might not have been so severe later on in the race... it could have been worse earlier on. Who knows... These things are so complicated, there are so many variables... And I'm fairly certain that if Dani knew the TC had gone to 0 - he wouldn't have whacked open the throttle like he does with it on...

 

Man I gotta read more.

 

..I certainly have no history to draw on but from what I've seen MM has caused numerous crashes and almost caused some more this season. That sucks for the rest of MotoGP. I'm guessing they've all gotten together and told the powers that be to do something about him...

When a team puts all that time and money into their race efforts they don't want a Loose Cannon like Marquez out there 'rolling the dice' with their rider, race after race. Yeah, it is exciting when he pulls off a sketchy move and doesn't crash out the other guys...but it's unacceptable that he doesn't always pull off his moves and he DOES crash out these other guys pretty often.

This stuff is not without deadly risk and multi-million Euro investments. So far he hasn't killed another rider with his "exciting" style of racing, but he's put a few on the pavement and just missed putting down many more.

Racing like that, it's selfish. "F**k it! I'll either pull of this sketchy move or I'll crash....so what? I am brave....." Easy to decide to race like that, but the other guys and teams don't put up with it for too long. Imagine if all the teams hired macho brave win or crash riders....in the end we'd end up with NASCAR or Demo Derby racing.

On another point, the traction control and electronics in Moto GP? I think that stuff is not so great. I recall a few races into the season where all the Engineers got their settings wrong? and all the top guys began the weekend with multiple crashes...pretty lame, having to depend on computer program to keep your bike upright and running at a pace to be competitive.

 

pretty often?....

 

I checked out that article on Pedrosa. Cripes, someone has a hate on for little Dani. Don't really understand why myself. Apparently not winning the championship and not smiling all the time are unacceptable. I don't know where you draw the line but I thought articles like that are why we have libel laws.

On the electronics debate...Rossi said in a press conference recently that they need to keep enough electronics for safety reasons, but nothing more. Made me wonder which aspects that would cover? Is traction control a safety device? Can you have traction control that helps avoid a high side but doesn't aid the rider to go faster? I think it sucks already that riders can't compete at the front because they are missing some small upgrade or electronic tweek.

No Laguna Seca? That also sucks. That was the most fan friendly circuit that I ever went to. The level of access was incredible.

 

I think it's more of a Puig thing and the fact that he has been given everything since day 1 and he has complained a lot about it. I'm not a fan of his - but I don't hate the man. For me, it's about the Hayden thing, and the comments he made about Hayden, the comments Puig made about Hayden (even in '06), just the political aspect of him riding.

Anyways - there is more to the Laguna thing. I thought if anything - they'd get rid of Indy because the track surface is terrible.

But Indy is doing a slight redesign and repaving the entire thing. So that's a pretty big plus. Laguna has safety issues (I guess - not that I'm aware of - but that's what the consensus is) and the pavement is getting to be a little bit of a problem. Plus, GP wants to bring all of the series there - not just Motogp - and they don't have the room there.

Old circuit


New circuit





As far as the electronics, I think it's gotten a little bit out of hand. The whole GPS, the settings for each corner, per lap, per variable - it's a little ridiculous. But I don't think TC or some other things are that bad. For the basic realm of anyone who could build a bike for GP - a common group of electronics should be allowed (because if you can afford to build 12 $100,000 motors, plus frames, carbon discs, all the suspension, etc - you can afford a certain amount of electronics). Manufacturers should be allowed to build and design their own - but they should have a limit as to what packages you get.

These bikes put down close to 240 hp - and I want to keep it that way. So I understand the need for "some" electronics. I think that they should loosen the rules on engines, and tighten the rules on electronics (but that's just me). The V5 in the 2006 and previous Honda's made about 240 hp on steel springs and relatively simple electronics without a seamless tranny. It was good enough for all of the Honda riders then.

So there are ways to do this and make the racing more exciting from both a tech angle and a "show" angle while lowering the costs.