Dip out, turn in
#22
Anyway back to your question. I really don't think it matters what you do at low speeds. The issue that scares me is picking up poor low speed cornering habits and then carrying them over into high speed cornering.
Personally, I take my slow turns as I take the fast ones so that I maintain good habits throughout.
#23
Thread Necromancy!!! I'm bringing this back to life because I've been reading Total Control and trying something I found there.
In Total Control, Parks outlines the 10 steps to Proper Cornering.
Steps 2, 3, 5 & 6 are the relative points. At Step 2, when you position your body to the inside of the turn the bike will begin to drift into the turn due to the change in CoG (Center of Gravity). So when you do Step 3 you essentially are counter-balancing to maintain a straight line. Not quite dipping out as I described. But definitely turning the bike away from the intended direction. At Step 5, relaxing the pressure on the outside grip lets the bike begin to drift back into the turn. Step 6 is when you begin to counter-steer normally into the turn.
What I've been finding is my turns are much smoother and much crisper than before. I'm also waiting longer to begin my turn in, so I'm taking the turns faster than before. I'm gently experimenting with combining Step 2 & Step 3 as well, finding my body naturally settling into position as the bike leans away from the intended turn direction.
Last time I brought this up, there was some "discussion" of the technique. I'd like to return to the discussion of the technique described by Lee Parks in his book. To me, it does feel more natural which removes a lot of the fear in taking a turn. And I did discover, as he warns in the book, that while getting used to the technique I found myself turning too hard. Found myself close to the lane marker for opposing traffic... on left hand turns
In Total Control, Parks outlines the 10 steps to Proper Cornering.
- Reposition foot for ground clearance
- Pre-position body to avoid upsetting the suspension
- Push on the outside grip
- Locate turn point
- Relax outside grip
- Push on inside grip
- Roll on throttle
- Push on outside grip
- Return body position to neutral
Steps 2, 3, 5 & 6 are the relative points. At Step 2, when you position your body to the inside of the turn the bike will begin to drift into the turn due to the change in CoG (Center of Gravity). So when you do Step 3 you essentially are counter-balancing to maintain a straight line. Not quite dipping out as I described. But definitely turning the bike away from the intended direction. At Step 5, relaxing the pressure on the outside grip lets the bike begin to drift back into the turn. Step 6 is when you begin to counter-steer normally into the turn.
What I've been finding is my turns are much smoother and much crisper than before. I'm also waiting longer to begin my turn in, so I'm taking the turns faster than before. I'm gently experimenting with combining Step 2 & Step 3 as well, finding my body naturally settling into position as the bike leans away from the intended turn direction.
Last time I brought this up, there was some "discussion" of the technique. I'd like to return to the discussion of the technique described by Lee Parks in his book. To me, it does feel more natural which removes a lot of the fear in taking a turn. And I did discover, as he warns in the book, that while getting used to the technique I found myself turning too hard. Found myself close to the lane marker for opposing traffic... on left hand turns
#24
Thread Necromancy!!! I'm bringing this back to life because I've been reading Total Control and trying something I found there.
In Total Control, Parks outlines the 10 steps to Proper Cornering.
Steps 2, 3, 5 & 6 are the relative points. At Step 2, when you position your body to the inside of the turn the bike will begin to drift into the turn due to the change in CoG (Center of Gravity). So when you do Step 3 you essentially are counter-balancing to maintain a straight line. Not quite dipping out as I described. But definitely turning the bike away from the intended direction. At Step 5, relaxing the pressure on the outside grip lets the bike begin to drift back into the turn. Step 6 is when you begin to counter-steer normally into the turn.
What I've been finding is my turns are much smoother and much crisper than before. I'm also waiting longer to begin my turn in, so I'm taking the turns faster than before. I'm gently experimenting with combining Step 2 & Step 3 as well, finding my body naturally settling into position as the bike leans away from the intended turn direction.
Last time I brought this up, there was some "discussion" of the technique. I'd like to return to the discussion of the technique described by Lee Parks in his book. To me, it does feel more natural which removes a lot of the fear in taking a turn. And I did discover, as he warns in the book, that while getting used to the technique I found myself turning too hard. Found myself close to the lane marker for opposing traffic... on left hand turns
In Total Control, Parks outlines the 10 steps to Proper Cornering.
- Reposition foot for ground clearance
- Pre-position body to avoid upsetting the suspension
- Push on the outside grip
- Locate turn point
- Relax outside grip
- Push on inside grip
- Roll on throttle
- Push on outside grip
- Return body position to neutral
Steps 2, 3, 5 & 6 are the relative points. At Step 2, when you position your body to the inside of the turn the bike will begin to drift into the turn due to the change in CoG (Center of Gravity). So when you do Step 3 you essentially are counter-balancing to maintain a straight line. Not quite dipping out as I described. But definitely turning the bike away from the intended direction. At Step 5, relaxing the pressure on the outside grip lets the bike begin to drift back into the turn. Step 6 is when you begin to counter-steer normally into the turn.
What I've been finding is my turns are much smoother and much crisper than before. I'm also waiting longer to begin my turn in, so I'm taking the turns faster than before. I'm gently experimenting with combining Step 2 & Step 3 as well, finding my body naturally settling into position as the bike leans away from the intended turn direction.
Last time I brought this up, there was some "discussion" of the technique. I'd like to return to the discussion of the technique described by Lee Parks in his book. To me, it does feel more natural which removes a lot of the fear in taking a turn. And I did discover, as he warns in the book, that while getting used to the technique I found myself turning too hard. Found myself close to the lane marker for opposing traffic... on left hand turns
The other methods, like body steering, pressing with the outside thigh on the tank, weighting the pegs, and what not serve as accents, not primary methods of turning a bike. You can sit perfectly straight on bike, and do nothing else but counter-steer, and the bike will turn. If you try any of the other methods of turning individually (like body weight, peg weighting, and etc) you'll get nothing but a minor sway and that's generally because you subconsciously are pressing the clip on anyway.
So as far as the original question, the "sway out and flick in" method is common practice, many people do it, myself included. But usually only when I'm having fun and want to feel the lean more. So for example approaching a 90 degree corner on neighborhood or side streets, I may sway out a bit to the left preparing for a right 90 degree turn, and then flick it to the right and accelerate through.
While it's pretty close to what you describe in your excerpt of total control--it's not the same. In his description, think about how racers approach a corner...they're hanging off the bike early, looking through, breaking and then downshifting while blipping. Generally the bike is coming in straight as this is happening up to the turn in point, then the lean happens when they counter steer.
So the reason for weighting the outside peg and/or clip-on when getting ready for the turn is because not only are you setting up the turn by getting your body in position, you're also looking through as you approach your turn in reference point. Those two actions will end up altering your bike placement if you don't pay close attention, ruining your turn in because now it will be too shallow and your line coming out may put you off the road without another adjustment of letting off of the progressive roll on. It's to maintain a straight approach as you prepare for your turn. It's not going to be an actual sway one direction and flick in the opposite and intended turn path.
Now to convolute the situation even further, I maintain pressure on the outside peg even as I turn in the opposite direction, because I'm using the outside peg as a pivot point to get more pressure on the inside clip-on. KC's method? Absolutely. He calls it pivot steering. I like it. Much better than the general push under method on the inside peg where you literally have nothing to leverage from and only have your body weight.
Last edited by SACBR; 08-13-2011 at 01:05 AM.
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