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Dip out, turn in

  #1  
Old 02-18-2011, 09:46 AM
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Default Dip out, turn in

Wondering what people's take is on this practice for street turns. Basically for the 90 degree turns where you briefly dip to the opposite of the turn before turning in.

I find it helps to better create an arc which is easier to look / lean thru. Where the turn is normally a harsher turn, requiring either a more aggressive turn or a much slower turn. It popped in my head because these last 2 days back on my bike I found myself doing it again. I had been doing it since seeing a riding series from a motorcop instructor about slow / tight maneuvering. But when I took the ERC last year the instructor kept complaining about it, saying it wasn't necessary.
 
  #2  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:56 AM
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I use that all the time on anything with 2 wheels, - basically you're initiating countersteer at a lower speed situation. Kinda diving into the turn even at a lower speed -- especially if I know I'm about to open up the throttle good coming thru the turn and into the next road.

I would assume the ERC instructor is wanting to teach the smooth and steady approach instead of a little more aggressive technique? Understandable, but while I don't expect them to teach hooligan-style techniques, it is a "sport" bike and I would think they realize you're wanting to ride a little more "spiritedly". (is that a word?)
 
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:36 AM
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Possible but I find if I use their approach I have to either lean harder with a higher speed to maintain my lane thru the turn. Or counter-balance which feels all sorts of weird

I don't find the dip technique as aggressive nor as uncomfortable.
 
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:14 PM
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I use it all the time, also help when there are tall shrubs and trees and crap right on the corner and cant see around them
 
  #5  
Old 02-18-2011, 12:18 PM
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I use the dip technique as you refer to it as( I don't have a name for it so your name sounds good, I am not trying to be nasty in me comment though) on turns involving anything beyond 70 degrees. I find it smoother to use in those kind of turns. Either that or I find me self slowing down to about 20 mph to make the turn. Turning on to me home street, the adjoining road comes off of a right hand 30 degree curve and is about to go into a left hand 30 degree curve. So to actually execute the turn, considering 90 degrees is exactly perpendicular, I have to turn into an angle that is like say about 110 degrees( an obtuse angle). So yeah counter steering or dipping works so much better.
 
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:00 PM
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Well its not the first time the MSF and I (and others) disagree.

They disliked me braking with 2 fingers, even though I could brake harder than anyone in both the BRC & ERC.
 
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:56 PM
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No. No. And more no.

The biggest problem with this technique is that you are moving your bike in the opposite direction that you have indicated. If you have your right turn signal on, and you come up to a right turn, and then you suddenly start moving your bike left, especially in a jerky way that we're habitual of doing, you're going to freak out any drivers that are near you.

Put your bike in a good spot that prepares you for the turn before you get there. Or, if you get surprised or are taking a turn you aren't familiar with, then slow down and deal with the turn as you need to. But never make your bike move in the opposite direction.

Countersteer at a low speed doesn't make sense, because countersteering doesn't EXIST at low speed.

Random note, my MSF class told us to brake with 2 or 3 fingers, because if you use all 4, you're more likely to brake with harder force than you intended, locking up the front wheel and crashing. So your MSF instructors are dumb.
 
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:03 PM
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Hadn't thought of that Aken. But I'm pretty sure I saw this in the Ride Like a Pro series which is made by an instructor for motorcycle cops. Which really confuzzles things.
 
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:11 PM
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So when you turn you are making a line kind of in the way a question mark is drawn correct? I don't see the need, plus its weird to other people watching you do it like Aken mentioned.

You are supposed pick your turn in spot before you get there. Therefor your driving up to that point should be a straight line, no abrupt movements opposite of the turn prior. You still achieve the same desired effect of widening the turn without the extra movement.

Or am I totally misunderstanding what you are explaining?
 
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:17 PM
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I want to clarify my statement too - I'm not talking about drastically changing position in the lane, more like the pressure on the handlebar.

If you're about to take a low speed, 90 degree right hand turn - say you were the 2nd vehicle back at the red light, you should already be set up in the middle to left side of the lane to make the right turn smoothly. If you;re in the right side of the lane, you're forcing yourself to have to either square the turn up, or really lean hard with little momentum.

you wouldn't want to be making herky-jerky movements that other drivers could interpret as you about to make a lane change that isn't what your blinker says you are going to do, or lane of traffic is indicated to do by law.
 

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