I just thought it interesting that in my MSF class they only tell you "Slow, Press, and Roll on the throttle" to go around the corner. I thought, "Press what way? What am I pressing? Am I pressing?" lol. no actual explanation of counter steering though...

 

I am wondering if they mean push here?? ..some people describe counter steering as push left to go left and push right to go right ..ie push on the left bar to go left ... it all amounts to the same thing really, you are simply applying an opposite force to the bars to that which you want the bike to go ... again I must repeat here that this opposite force is only applied to initially get the bike leaning over in the bend, once over you let the bike track naturally through the bend with a neutral hold on the bars.

If you set up a pointer system it admirably demonstrates that the bike is in fact tracking through the bend as the pointers become offset from each other showing that the bike is actually turning into the bend ...

Jules

 

I'm brand new to motorcycles. I have just completed the MSF course and they too told us to "press" the bars. Press right go right press left go left. Whats the difference if we press,push or torque the bars? Don't they all give off the same reaction?


this whole write up is greatly appreciated Juliet.

 

Thank you, I am really glad people are getting something out of this!! :-) ... it all describes the same thing ..push or press the left bar to go left ..push or press the right bar to go right ... I prefer "push" as it seems somewhat clearer to say push on the bar ... so yes push, press or torque its all the same thing ... I actually tend to "torque" both bars evenly when I counter steer, remember too that you are only torqueing the bars enough to get the desired kick over or lean angle ... once over you have a neutral hold on the bars just as when riding upright .. that is until you wish to come back upright or maybe lean over further ..

Jules

 

Just drag knees and go really fast with yours eyes closed! Works for me

 

Hi Jules, very interesting post.

I've been riding bicycles since just after birth I guess, we all grow up with them around here. At 16 I had a 50cc Suzuki for four days until it, and I, were totaled by a drunk driving a car at night with no lights on... And I've been riding the Honda since 2002.

Anyways what I'm trying to say is that I've never given this theory any thought. The bike just goes where I want it to go. And I've had to avoid many obstacles like road kill, tires and refrigerators. Wait, what? Yeah, really some people would dump just about anything smack in the middle of the road...

However somehow to me it seems wrong to counter-steer when you come out of a bend. When I come out of one I usually increase throttle to accelerate. Counter-steering while accelerating out of a curve sounds dangerous. But then again I might have always done this without giving it any thought.

Needless to say I'll pay more attention to the why and how of steering next time I go out riding. Thanks for bringing this to attention.

 

LOL @ closing eyes and going fast

Anyway, I haven't put a little wd40 tube on my handle bars like you did, but it feels like when I'm cornering, I'm ALWAYS counter steering, through the whole turn. Is this correct? Seems like you all made it sound like the wheel repositions (either straight or into the turn) after the initial counter steer. I also noticed, and planned to work on, the fact that I dont lean very much with my bike unless i want it to turn harder (i.e. turning onto a road at 5-10 mph or making a u-turn in a tight space). Most of the time when at higher speeds, I simply counter steer.

I knew about counter steering before I ever got on a bike (made sure of that). I have a 1998 600 F3 and it seems like there is NO leaning on my bike, only counter steering and THEN leaning to help the turn. My friend has a Ninja Es500 and I can lean it without counter steering at all.

 

I think you're simply misinterpreting the feedback you're getting from the bike. It's all physics. Like we said, you have to counter-steer only to initiate the lean of the bike, to perform a turn (when not talking about very slow speeds). Say, in a left turn...think about it, if the wheel was still pointing to the right of the bike's front-to-back axis, it would be going right, not left. Except for the fact that if you were leaned left and turning right, you would actually be in the process of falling over!

And then we could start talking about center of mass, centripetal force, support, etc. to explain what's going on in proper, stable turning. But I tend to be long-winded, so I'll spare us all.

And for anyone keeping tally, I was taught the "push on the right grip to go right, push on the left grip to go left" mindset of counter-steering.

 

Most people dont think about this and its not theory, its fact, you counter steer to turn a bike, period ... the bike goes where you want it to go because you counter steer it and make it go where you want it to go ...



When going into a bend all your braking and deceleration should be over with .. you tend to go in with a trailing throttle or very gentle acceleration ... who says you have to counter steer while accelerating?? ... when the bike is leaned over you simply pick it back up to central by counter steeering when you are ready to go straight, then turn on the gas ...

You are welocome, ask anything anytime about this :-)

Jules

 

No, you are not counter steering through the whole turn ... the pressure is only applied to kick the bike over into the turn, once in the turn the bike actually tracks with the bend ... you will find you in fact have a neutral hold on the bars ..if you kept up the counter steer you would simply kiss the tarmac ... the bike can only go left by actually steeering left but to get it to steer left you counter steer right to kick it over first, then ease up on the bars and let them find their way ..in reality your brain is a computer doing countless little adjustments a second ... when your bike is upright you can take your hands off the bars (not recommended ..lol) and the bike stays going forwards due to trail ..you can do the same in the bend once the bike is tracking because the bike is in a stable condition again ...the forces are only applied on the bars to drop the bike over or pick it back up


Yes it does as explained above ... once in the turn initiated by the counter steer then the pointers will indeed show the bike to be steering or tracking with the bend ...


Counter steering is 99% of it ... lean is very subjective and down to personal preference ..at speed to take a series of rapid turns or to avoid objects you counter steer or have an accident

The NO BS fixed bar bike is the ultimate eye opener on this stuff :-)


The trouble is with counter steering the forces are often low especially at slower speeds ..we all do it subconsciously anyway .. when you lean off to the left there is a natural tendency to shorten your right arm and pull the right bar at the same time pushing the left bar ..you just dont notice this and think you turned by leaning, you didnt, you counter steered ...

On the NO BS bike no matter how much they leaned off and jumped about they could not get it to turn ..it makes a believer out of everyone who rides it ...

Jules