So, how long have you been riding?
#51
08-10-2009, 12:29 AM
The military pilot/hours of flight time idea isn't as applicable to riding bikes in the same way. With a military pilot, if you do something wrong or start to develop bad habits you're reprimanded, shown what you did wrong and forced to do things the right way. There's no such overseeing group when people ride their bikes to correct mistakes or force proper riding. So in effect a pilot is always learning, from his co-pilots, ground controllers, wingmen, superiours, more experienced pilots, etc. Which makes their hours time spent doing it the right way. Not so for riders, there's no guarantee of improvment with motorcyclists with seat time, could just be more time to reinforce bad habits learned early on.
Don't agree. Riders are TOLD when on the road, either by fellow riders, or by falling off the bike and being told later.The caveat is one must survive the mistake - true for both groups.There are old pilots/riders and bold pilot/riders but very few are both....................
Pain is a great teacher. This I know.............................
Don't agree. Riders are TOLD when on the road, either by fellow riders, or by falling off the bike and being told later.The caveat is one must survive the mistake - true for both groups.There are old pilots/riders and bold pilot/riders but very few are both....................
Pain is a great teacher. This I know.............................
#52
08-10-2009, 01:16 AM
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Don't agree. Riders are TOLD when on the road, either by fellow riders, or by falling off the bike and being told later.The caveat is one must survive the mistake - true for both groups.There are old pilots/riders and bold pilot/riders but very few are both....................
Pain is a great teacher. This I know.............................
Pain is a great teacher. This I know.............................
Now, military pilots are professionals, trained and overseen by other professionals. And their skills are kept keen by continous seat time with other professionals. To even come close to replicating that for a street rider you'd need to be hanging out and riding with ama and motogp riders and trainers, hitting any twisties with Spies and Rossi lately? You cannot replicate the military example on the street, it's not possible. Those guys are properly trained professionals, surrounded by other professionals and constantly corrected or overseen by professionals. Every minute of seat time to them is much more valuable to them for those reasons.
Compared to them were all a bunch of crossbred idiots putzing up and down the street either by ourselves or with other crossbred idiots, practicing our idiot ways. The example and comparison is extreme but the point is obvious. Street riding experience can be valuable, depending on who you ride with and how you ride, but comparing it to being worthwhile in the same way that military training is is just prepostorous, and often people just reinforce through repitition things they never learned to do properly in the first place.
#54
08-14-2009, 05:31 PM
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Sprockaholic and Chainstructurer seem to have caught the true essence of the entire thread and I like your view viewpoints better then anybody else's including my...you're reminiscing about being drowned and riding in hailstorms and poor weather remind me of what hard-core riding is about I am not a fair weather rider more of a inside joke about not riding in poor weather than anything else but your post reminded me especially of one trip I took in what was left of a hurricane last year I posted a piece about it here's a link to that story if anybody's interested https://cbrforum.com/forum/off-topic-6/stupid-what-h-ll-you-doing-78028/
Classic really wished you taken me up on the offer it has some wonderful stuff from individuals like Gandhi Abraham Lincoln Winston Churchill and my favorite Gershwin I was really looking forward to letting you have it the emphasis is on you in that one and on see a muscle feast here's one for you not from 20 years ago this year LOL
Hang fire interesting choice in usernames I must say I have enjoyed reading all of your posts since I returned but brother you missed the boat on this one or did you first and foremost I never made the connection between military and pilots I did referenced both but never once did I say military pilots you brought that to the table if that was your intention so be it but don't lay that one at anybody else's doorstep but your own I vaguely referenced the fact that way back in the day the Marine Corps was struggling specifically the Marine Corps was struggling with some way to evaluate Marine's ability to handle motorcycles and a method to verify that I clearly referenced members of the military taking every opportunity to get some riding time in with a photo of a personal friend and absentee forum member known to some as F3 I did reference in general wishing there was some system similar to the way pilots hours are used to acknowledge their ability I could have clearly referenced something I'm more familiar with but would have caused as big a controversy the difference between an elite diver and a master diver as determined by the five or six different agencies used in the civilian world to acknowledge their position on the food chain which would have probably created as much havac and controversy for those spending 40 plus hours a week hawking this forum I will however take your comments concerning the superior abilities of military pilots as a personal complement and matter of family pride considering my brother is a Marine pilot with the 513 and my father flew A6 and F4 in Vietnam before I was born as to the matter of learning things the hard way the method of trial and error has been around long before you or I and will surpass both of us as for peer pressure and riding within groups I'll let another forum member and retired Marine senior NCO quotes speak for itself and I will say the Marine Corps has had plenty of success in this area here is a link to the entire thread but here is his exact quote and can be verified quite easily
And the link to the whole story
https://cbrforum.com/forum/off-topic-6/all-riders-over-age-25-idiots-54429/
And still stand by my original conclusion no right answer have a nice Gershwin day
Classic really wished you taken me up on the offer it has some wonderful stuff from individuals like Gandhi Abraham Lincoln Winston Churchill and my favorite Gershwin I was really looking forward to letting you have it the emphasis is on you in that one and on see a muscle feast here's one for you not from 20 years ago this year LOL
Hang fire interesting choice in usernames I must say I have enjoyed reading all of your posts since I returned but brother you missed the boat on this one or did you first and foremost I never made the connection between military and pilots I did referenced both but never once did I say military pilots you brought that to the table if that was your intention so be it but don't lay that one at anybody else's doorstep but your own I vaguely referenced the fact that way back in the day the Marine Corps was struggling specifically the Marine Corps was struggling with some way to evaluate Marine's ability to handle motorcycles and a method to verify that I clearly referenced members of the military taking every opportunity to get some riding time in with a photo of a personal friend and absentee forum member known to some as F3 I did reference in general wishing there was some system similar to the way pilots hours are used to acknowledge their ability I could have clearly referenced something I'm more familiar with but would have caused as big a controversy the difference between an elite diver and a master diver as determined by the five or six different agencies used in the civilian world to acknowledge their position on the food chain which would have probably created as much havac and controversy for those spending 40 plus hours a week hawking this forum I will however take your comments concerning the superior abilities of military pilots as a personal complement and matter of family pride considering my brother is a Marine pilot with the 513 and my father flew A6 and F4 in Vietnam before I was born as to the matter of learning things the hard way the method of trial and error has been around long before you or I and will surpass both of us as for peer pressure and riding within groups I'll let another forum member and retired Marine senior NCO quotes speak for itself and I will say the Marine Corps has had plenty of success in this area here is a link to the entire thread but here is his exact quote and can be verified quite easily
It's just a personal opinion. We all have them about different things and I respect that. You should too.
Last year, I told the CG at IIMEF that I thought he was going about it all wrong because he made it mandatory to have motorcycle clubs in every unit for the purpose of experienced riders teaching the younger ones. Well, most of the older guys ride cruisers and were treating the younger guys on sport bikes like ***. You know the result of our conversation? IIMEF paid for 30 guys to go to the Keith Code Superbike school in order to prepare them to train younger guys. This year, they have sent 60 more to the school. They still have clubs, but they are slowly coming around to what the intention was, and that is to educate younger riders. I use to conduct advance courses for my unit's riders and can show you videos of the courses. Every single person that went through my couse came away from it more confident and
It pays to be able to talk to the higher ups when you have all the stats and knowledge to back up your claims.
Last year, I told the CG at IIMEF that I thought he was going about it all wrong because he made it mandatory to have motorcycle clubs in every unit for the purpose of experienced riders teaching the younger ones. Well, most of the older guys ride cruisers and were treating the younger guys on sport bikes like ***. You know the result of our conversation? IIMEF paid for 30 guys to go to the Keith Code Superbike school in order to prepare them to train younger guys. This year, they have sent 60 more to the school. They still have clubs, but they are slowly coming around to what the intention was, and that is to educate younger riders. I use to conduct advance courses for my unit's riders and can show you videos of the courses. Every single person that went through my couse came away from it more confident and
It pays to be able to talk to the higher ups when you have all the stats and knowledge to back up your claims.
And the link to the whole story
https://cbrforum.com/forum/off-topic-6/all-riders-over-age-25-idiots-54429/
And still stand by my original conclusion no right answer have a nice Gershwin day
Last edited by HARDCORP 8654; 08-14-2009 at 05:34 PM.
#55
08-14-2009, 05:47 PM
#56
08-14-2009, 05:59 PM
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Posts: n/a
Classic really wished you taken me up on the offer it has some wonderful stuff from individuals like Gandhi Abraham Lincoln Winston Churchill and my favorite Gershwin I was really looking forward to letting you have it the emphasis is on you in that one and on see a muscle feast here's one for you not from 20 years ago this year LOL
BTW ..om sure that if you make enough trips to the gym it will help with your obvious problem ...LOL
Still rattling on about mussel fest hu ...
By mussel fest, I was referring to the need to justify each others particular riding time .
Having certain people try to be-little riders that for what ever reason have not had there **** glued to the seat the entire time that they have been into bikes .. is what the original comment from me was about Corps..
I was sticking up for some of the riders that may have not put road time in full time all the time...
So who was or is muscle festing here Corps?? ...LOL
Om sure you are a good man Corps and certainly a deep and sincere one....but let it go mate ...sheesh ...
Last edited by CBRclassic; 08-14-2009 at 07:19 PM.
#57
08-15-2009, 01:35 AM
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Heh, don't mind me, wouldn't be the first time, nor likely the last that I miss the point and go off on a tangent. I went overboard on my explanation, was pretty much just saying that the idea of rating riders the same way pilots are rated still wouldn't give an accurate representation of their actual skill level. Could have actually stopped the post at that. Dunno if it was the insomnia or the caffeine but somehow it ended up turning into an amazing wall'o'text. Haven't been sleeping well lately, alot going on. Speaking of which, I'm off to bed.
As for the username, most don't know what it means, but fits my personality well. Had that nickname a long time.
As for the username, most don't know what it means, but fits my personality well. Had that nickname a long time.
Last edited by Hangfire; 08-15-2009 at 01:39 AM.
#59
08-17-2009, 02:55 AM
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Posts: n/a
Kinda a lengthy explanation to describe the intricacies of why the nickname suited me but it was given to me by a few marine buddies I was training at the time, had to do with the way I fought and not really worth explaining fully now, it would take to long.
The term itself though is more commonly used in firearms than mortars: ala http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hang_fire .
The term itself though is more commonly used in firearms than mortars: ala http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hang_fire .
