93 cbr1000f hard start wont idle
#23
07-24-2011, 01:24 PM
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h2,
First my disclaimer is that I have not had the carbs off my Hurricane. But I have taken them off my Kaw and Yamaha in days past.Since i've had the Cane, my Kaw doesnt get much attention..
What I would recommend especially with what you found under the diaphragm is that you completely disassemble them. Each one. If you do it on a tray that will fit them,suggest keeping all the pieces in line to the carb they came out of. The jets in my other bikes unscrewed. I always took them out , made sure I could see thru the little holes then a quick blast of carb cleaner followed by air dry. The float pins always visually inspect - a cheap magnifying glass will help see if the are circled or worn on the float pins.
Then I spray the carb cleaner into every hole I can find. Here a word of caution. DO NOT spray any rubber parts or a better way to say it is spray nothing that is not metal. Every hole in the carbs have an exit.If you spray into one and it comes back atcha that is plugged.
If you take your time, be meticulous on dis and re assembly you wont mess it up. I agree, it sounds like you have some pilot,and slow speed jet problems,but I would go through all of them. One other thing I ran into recently with my Kaw is the main jets were frozen in their tubes. I used pliers to hold the tubes and unscrewed them. One of the jets tore up but I had spares to replace. I'd say expect this and go get a few before you start. Also be very careful on using anything metal to open a jet. You can open it up and not know it. The bike will ! LAst as I assemble it, I take a rag soaked in the spray carb cleaner and wipe everything EXCEPT RUBBER PARTS down. Surprised at a little corrosion buildup, and if I take it apart,I clean it before I put it back.
Good luck, and I defer to the Masters here for any corrections on my advice.
First my disclaimer is that I have not had the carbs off my Hurricane. But I have taken them off my Kaw and Yamaha in days past.Since i've had the Cane, my Kaw doesnt get much attention..
What I would recommend especially with what you found under the diaphragm is that you completely disassemble them. Each one. If you do it on a tray that will fit them,suggest keeping all the pieces in line to the carb they came out of. The jets in my other bikes unscrewed. I always took them out , made sure I could see thru the little holes then a quick blast of carb cleaner followed by air dry. The float pins always visually inspect - a cheap magnifying glass will help see if the are circled or worn on the float pins.
Then I spray the carb cleaner into every hole I can find. Here a word of caution. DO NOT spray any rubber parts or a better way to say it is spray nothing that is not metal. Every hole in the carbs have an exit.If you spray into one and it comes back atcha that is plugged.
If you take your time, be meticulous on dis and re assembly you wont mess it up. I agree, it sounds like you have some pilot,and slow speed jet problems,but I would go through all of them. One other thing I ran into recently with my Kaw is the main jets were frozen in their tubes. I used pliers to hold the tubes and unscrewed them. One of the jets tore up but I had spares to replace. I'd say expect this and go get a few before you start. Also be very careful on using anything metal to open a jet. You can open it up and not know it. The bike will ! LAst as I assemble it, I take a rag soaked in the spray carb cleaner and wipe everything EXCEPT RUBBER PARTS down. Surprised at a little corrosion buildup, and if I take it apart,I clean it before I put it back.
Good luck, and I defer to the Masters here for any corrections on my advice.
#24
07-24-2011, 04:36 PM
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#25
07-24-2011, 05:23 PM
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um....ok...i got them loose...all of them and it appears that they are not blocked...arg...seems i was trying to use a tip cleaner just a hair bigger then the port would allow. crap...actually bored out 2 of them i think....holding them up to the light the pinholes seem identical in size...however...i fear i have just ruined two jets being stubborn. anyway...i thought they unscrewed, but after getting them out it seems there are no threads...soo i carefully tapped them back into place after a thorough cleaning. getting some inline filters now...reassemble and give er a shot again.......
#26
07-31-2011, 07:17 PM
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cleaned all jets, removed everything i could without separating carbs tho. as i stated earlier i may have bored out slow jets on accident. once again i put everything back together, installed the inline filter as suggested, added seafoam and new fuel....but bike would not fire before battery finally gave up. i put battery on charger and let it be for the evening. The next morning though...i was greeted with a pool of fuel on the garage floor. I positively cannot tell where it is leaking from but i suspect one of the tee fittings or float bowl gasket. So off came the carbs again..ugh! Now just looking for a carb kit that wont break the bank. This bike is trying my patience.........
#27
07-31-2011, 09:57 PM
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Well first off, sorry to hear your story of woe, let me tell you these old girls can try your patients, but theyre worth it!!!!
I would say try and find the leak first, throw some more fuel in her to find the leak. Also have you done a valve adjust yet? and it may have not started due to a low battery. Are all the carbs seated correctly, and did you put the vacuum line back on? Hows the spark? are all wire connections in good shape? Have you tried starter fluid? I did have a problem with my pulser coil connection that prevented my bike from starting. the plastic part was connected, but the internals were loose and shoddy. I am sure I will think of other things tonight.
Edit: have you tried bench syncing the carbs?
I would say try and find the leak first, throw some more fuel in her to find the leak. Also have you done a valve adjust yet? and it may have not started due to a low battery. Are all the carbs seated correctly, and did you put the vacuum line back on? Hows the spark? are all wire connections in good shape? Have you tried starter fluid? I did have a problem with my pulser coil connection that prevented my bike from starting. the plastic part was connected, but the internals were loose and shoddy. I am sure I will think of other things tonight.
Edit: have you tried bench syncing the carbs?
Last edited by outlawfox13; 07-31-2011 at 10:01 PM.
#28
08-01-2011, 01:30 AM
The idle jets are blocked perhaps?
If you have the carbs off grab a beer, a flat and phillips screwdriver, a can of carb cleaner and go to work. They are pretty simple to clean, just take your time and don't strip/lose anything. The rubber diaphragm is the only thing even close to being delicate and even that will put up with quite a bit.
The only things you have to worry about 'setting' or 'tuning' correctly is the idle screws and the sync of the carbs. If you keep the carbs all attached, you shouldn't have to touch the sync. Everything else on the carb can be undone, flushed, wiped down and put back in. There's no magic going on in there and the tiniest bit of gunk in a jet will cause no end of headaches so it's well worth the trouble.
while you have them off look all over the carbs, there should be a nipple that you can connect a hose to on each carb. These should be blocked off on 3 carbs, with the #1 carb nipple connecting to the hose that you sucked on to make the fuel tap 'click'. the vacuum from that carb opens the fuel tap when the bike starts running. clever eh?
Now I wish I had a pic of the carbs for this part...
The jets are the cluster of 3 brass looking things that stick out into the middle of the bowl after you take it off. 2 of those things can be unscrewed. the smaller one is the idle jet, the larger is the main jet. the idle jet should supply the fuel at idle , the main jet comes into play when you load the engine a bit and want some power. just unscrew them and blow them out with the carb cleaner. the main jet also has an emulsion tube (brass tube the jet screws into with tiny holes down the side). the main jet itself is really nothing more than a brass bolt that screws into the tube.
You should also stick the plastic pipe from the carb cleaner in any little holes and passages you see and give it all a quick blast.
Once you have done that on all 4 (you can clean the float needles as well if you want, but as you don't have fuel leaking out of the carb then I wouldn't bother touching them.
OK now I found a pic that I think helps... http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w...cture001-4.jpg
Looking at that, see the screw that's covered in blue in between the 2 carb inlets? ( there's only 2 patches of blue in that pic and one isn't a screw so...) that's one of the sync screws. there will be one of them between each set of carbs. these make sure that the carbs all open the same amount when you turn the throttle, so that all cylinders are doing equal work. As your engine isn't running at all I doubt your problem is there. They would have to be a long way out for it not to run at all.
I might need some help with this one, see where his thumb is in the pic? there is a screw nestled in that tube-thing sticking out. I am 80% sure that is the idle mixture screw. screwing that in and out changes the mixture at idle. This could be the source of your problems. Screw them all the way in, and count how many times you you turn them before they hit a stop. Don't try to tighten them, just screw lightly till they stop. Now there is a little bit of voodoo with these things, there's no hard-and-fast rule, but most bikes seem to like about 2.5 turns out from stopped as a baseline. If it took more or less than 2.5 turns to reach the bottom then let us know.
After you measure the turns, unscrew them all the way out, be careful because there will be a spring in there. spray, wipe and blast out the passage. Then screw it back in with the spring till it stops, then 2.5 turns back out.
From there have a look down the throat of each carb. you should see the butterfly (the plate that opens and closes when you twist the throttle) and there should be a little gap under it. what the sync does is makes sure that gap is the same on each carb. just do a quick eyeball. close enough is close enough at this point. Also screw the idle stop screw, you should see it make the gap bigger and smaller. That's how it controls your idle speed. Just set it so there is about 1-2mm gap beneath the butterflies.
Put em back in and it should start up again!
Anyone think of anything I missed? I didn;t think about the choke, but it sounds like that is working ok
If you have the carbs off grab a beer, a flat and phillips screwdriver, a can of carb cleaner and go to work. They are pretty simple to clean, just take your time and don't strip/lose anything. The rubber diaphragm is the only thing even close to being delicate and even that will put up with quite a bit.
The only things you have to worry about 'setting' or 'tuning' correctly is the idle screws and the sync of the carbs. If you keep the carbs all attached, you shouldn't have to touch the sync. Everything else on the carb can be undone, flushed, wiped down and put back in. There's no magic going on in there and the tiniest bit of gunk in a jet will cause no end of headaches so it's well worth the trouble.
while you have them off look all over the carbs, there should be a nipple that you can connect a hose to on each carb. These should be blocked off on 3 carbs, with the #1 carb nipple connecting to the hose that you sucked on to make the fuel tap 'click'. the vacuum from that carb opens the fuel tap when the bike starts running. clever eh?
Now I wish I had a pic of the carbs for this part...
The jets are the cluster of 3 brass looking things that stick out into the middle of the bowl after you take it off. 2 of those things can be unscrewed. the smaller one is the idle jet, the larger is the main jet. the idle jet should supply the fuel at idle , the main jet comes into play when you load the engine a bit and want some power. just unscrew them and blow them out with the carb cleaner. the main jet also has an emulsion tube (brass tube the jet screws into with tiny holes down the side). the main jet itself is really nothing more than a brass bolt that screws into the tube.
You should also stick the plastic pipe from the carb cleaner in any little holes and passages you see and give it all a quick blast.
Once you have done that on all 4 (you can clean the float needles as well if you want, but as you don't have fuel leaking out of the carb then I wouldn't bother touching them.
OK now I found a pic that I think helps... http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w...cture001-4.jpg
Looking at that, see the screw that's covered in blue in between the 2 carb inlets? ( there's only 2 patches of blue in that pic and one isn't a screw so...) that's one of the sync screws. there will be one of them between each set of carbs. these make sure that the carbs all open the same amount when you turn the throttle, so that all cylinders are doing equal work. As your engine isn't running at all I doubt your problem is there. They would have to be a long way out for it not to run at all.
I might need some help with this one, see where his thumb is in the pic? there is a screw nestled in that tube-thing sticking out. I am 80% sure that is the idle mixture screw. screwing that in and out changes the mixture at idle. This could be the source of your problems. Screw them all the way in, and count how many times you you turn them before they hit a stop. Don't try to tighten them, just screw lightly till they stop. Now there is a little bit of voodoo with these things, there's no hard-and-fast rule, but most bikes seem to like about 2.5 turns out from stopped as a baseline. If it took more or less than 2.5 turns to reach the bottom then let us know.
After you measure the turns, unscrew them all the way out, be careful because there will be a spring in there. spray, wipe and blast out the passage. Then screw it back in with the spring till it stops, then 2.5 turns back out.
From there have a look down the throat of each carb. you should see the butterfly (the plate that opens and closes when you twist the throttle) and there should be a little gap under it. what the sync does is makes sure that gap is the same on each carb. just do a quick eyeball. close enough is close enough at this point. Also screw the idle stop screw, you should see it make the gap bigger and smaller. That's how it controls your idle speed. Just set it so there is about 1-2mm gap beneath the butterflies.
Put em back in and it should start up again!
Anyone think of anything I missed? I didn;t think about the choke, but it sounds like that is working ok
#29
08-01-2011, 05:54 AM
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#30
08-01-2011, 02:03 PM
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The D shaped screws are your pilot adjust screws, and generally dont need messed with, but if you want to ensure they are set correctly, there is a sticky on here with it, but heres the link.
https://cbrforum.com/forum/alternati...socket-123413/
https://cbrforum.com/forum/alternati...socket-123413/