Conrice's 954 FIGHTER build thread
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Retired Super Moderator and Fighterer
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Build has been coming along slowly. We're at the busiest time of year for work, and I've been riding and fiddling with the Bandit.
As far as this bike though, I've been buying a few different heads and seeing how the valves fit for them...
I saw a 954 race head on eBay from the FX days of the 954.
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?n...206247&alt=web
It seems odd to me that they went so big on the exhaust valves and only .5mm bigger on the intakes....
What do you guys think? I don't want to buy that head as I already have my head setup for my Hall Sensor for the 1000rr electronics. And I'm surprised by the valve sizes....
I was originally thinking 30mm intakes and 25 or 25.5mm exhaust valves, trying to get titanium if I could.
The zx10r exhaust valves from 2007 seem to work. They're 25.5 mm titanium valves and look to be about the right stem length. I think they're the winners for my exhaust valves...
I like the intakes, but they're SS (which I thought was odd...), at 30mm
Also, does anyone know how the gasses flow over titanium vs stainless valves? Their shape is different, and while I know about the weight savings, I wonder how the shape affects flow... We talk about seat angles, port volumes, etc., but I can't find any infow on this.
Titanium
Stainless
See the taper by the face? How does that affect things?
Could that be why Kawi went with SS on the intake side? Better flow? As far as metallurgy is considered, it seems backwards to put Ti on the exhaust and SS on the intake.
Those engines DO make great HP...
Is there more to the riddle?
As far as this bike though, I've been buying a few different heads and seeing how the valves fit for them...
I saw a 954 race head on eBay from the FX days of the 954.
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?n...206247&alt=web
It seems odd to me that they went so big on the exhaust valves and only .5mm bigger on the intakes....
What do you guys think? I don't want to buy that head as I already have my head setup for my Hall Sensor for the 1000rr electronics. And I'm surprised by the valve sizes....
I was originally thinking 30mm intakes and 25 or 25.5mm exhaust valves, trying to get titanium if I could.
The zx10r exhaust valves from 2007 seem to work. They're 25.5 mm titanium valves and look to be about the right stem length. I think they're the winners for my exhaust valves...
I like the intakes, but they're SS (which I thought was odd...), at 30mm
Also, does anyone know how the gasses flow over titanium vs stainless valves? Their shape is different, and while I know about the weight savings, I wonder how the shape affects flow... We talk about seat angles, port volumes, etc., but I can't find any infow on this.
Titanium
Stainless
See the taper by the face? How does that affect things?
Could that be why Kawi went with SS on the intake side? Better flow? As far as metallurgy is considered, it seems backwards to put Ti on the exhaust and SS on the intake.
Those engines DO make great HP...
Is there more to the riddle?
Last edited by Conrice; Mar 11, 2016 at 08:57 AM.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 278
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How's about bringing this thread alive.
1st, which do you prefer? (And look past the mess that is my garage presently)
1)
OR
2)
Or, how about both? With a dedicated m/c for each set up, I can change it out in about 20 minutes. It has the same ride height with using two different sets of triangles.
And if you were looking closely, I've changed forks.... The '12 1000rr forks were too short, I had no adjustment with them, and a big enough bump would have put my front wheel into my radiator....
So its zx14 forks, rims, rotors, etc. And the other benefit to using those forks is that I can run Sumitomo brakes, which I've always liked... Rear is a zx14 rim, 954 arm. I'm having a rotor cut for the wheel as the Kawi uses a 250mm rotor, and the CBR is set up for a 220mm one (and it doesn't bolt up).
As for what's stalled this bike, I'll tell you. Relying on other people, who are doing your work as a side job which means it always takes a back seat to their primary jobs.
I found out that I was not getting a signal from the Ducati sensor I was using as a Cam Position sensor... It was only putting out 2-3 V and the service limit for the ECU was 4.75V... I decided that it was best to just use the 1000rr sensor. In doing so, it opened up a spot in the cast head.
My welder was going to do this job for me while I was out of town. When I got back into town, I found out that he had moved away - with the head, sensor, cams, etc that I was going to use....
So, I'm still waiting on him to send it back to me... He assures me tomorrow is the day he's sending it, but I'm not holding my breath.... I have a lead on a guy in town who said he'd do the work I need (I know, I know...what's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing expecting different results...) so we'll see how quickly it gets done...
1st, which do you prefer? (And look past the mess that is my garage presently)
1)
OR
2)
Or, how about both? With a dedicated m/c for each set up, I can change it out in about 20 minutes. It has the same ride height with using two different sets of triangles.
And if you were looking closely, I've changed forks.... The '12 1000rr forks were too short, I had no adjustment with them, and a big enough bump would have put my front wheel into my radiator....
So its zx14 forks, rims, rotors, etc. And the other benefit to using those forks is that I can run Sumitomo brakes, which I've always liked... Rear is a zx14 rim, 954 arm. I'm having a rotor cut for the wheel as the Kawi uses a 250mm rotor, and the CBR is set up for a 220mm one (and it doesn't bolt up).
As for what's stalled this bike, I'll tell you. Relying on other people, who are doing your work as a side job which means it always takes a back seat to their primary jobs.
I found out that I was not getting a signal from the Ducati sensor I was using as a Cam Position sensor... It was only putting out 2-3 V and the service limit for the ECU was 4.75V... I decided that it was best to just use the 1000rr sensor. In doing so, it opened up a spot in the cast head.
My welder was going to do this job for me while I was out of town. When I got back into town, I found out that he had moved away - with the head, sensor, cams, etc that I was going to use....
So, I'm still waiting on him to send it back to me... He assures me tomorrow is the day he's sending it, but I'm not holding my breath.... I have a lead on a guy in town who said he'd do the work I need (I know, I know...what's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing expecting different results...) so we'll see how quickly it gets done...
Really hate to dig this far back but just now following back up on your thread!
Did you have a cross reference for the axle sizes and such to see what wheels will work? I know it's a little off subject but I LOVE those wheels. But I would probably put them on my R6 instead of the 5 spoke wheels on it now.
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Retired Super Moderator and Fighterer
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Posts: 6,146
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Really hate to dig this far back but just now following back up on your thread!
Did you have a cross reference for the axle sizes and such to see what wheels will work? I know it's a little off subject but I LOVE those wheels. But I would probably put them on my R6 instead of the 5 spoke wheels on it now.
Did you have a cross reference for the axle sizes and such to see what wheels will work? I know it's a little off subject but I LOVE those wheels. But I would probably put them on my R6 instead of the 5 spoke wheels on it now.
However Skee, be advised they only had 310 rotors for the front unless you buy horribly overpriced-oversized ones.
And the rear is a big 250 rotor - finding one that'll fit the rim and have a 220mm OD is impossible (I'm having one made for my bike out of aluminum...)
The zx spacers for the rear fit my 954 swingarm perfectly. As for the fronts, I think I needed a shim on each side, but I don't really remember. I'll look at some old pics and let you know...
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 278
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They're zx14 wheels. Same axle sizes as my 954. That's not the hard part - AllBalls has conversion bearings for that.
However Skee, be advised they only had 310 rotors for the front unless you buy horribly overpriced-oversized ones.
And the rear is a big 250 rotor - finding one that'll fit the rim and have a 220mm OD is impossible (I'm having one made for my bike out of aluminum...)
The zx spacers for the rear fit my 954 swingarm perfectly. As for the fronts, I think I needed a shim on each side, but I don't really remember. I'll look at some old pics and let you know...
However Skee, be advised they only had 310 rotors for the front unless you buy horribly overpriced-oversized ones.
And the rear is a big 250 rotor - finding one that'll fit the rim and have a 220mm OD is impossible (I'm having one made for my bike out of aluminum...)
The zx spacers for the rear fit my 954 swingarm perfectly. As for the fronts, I think I needed a shim on each side, but I don't really remember. I'll look at some old pics and let you know...
I really like the thinner split spoke rims like those and the newer CBR wheels. But, I have gone to the dark side with the new R6. I can drop what I paid for the entire bike on a set of race wheels that look similar, but I would like to find a set of OEM style that would work if I could.
The F4i swap on the rear was easy since I used the whole swingarm and caliper, but reused the F4i wheel and rotor. Just didn't think it would be that easy to swap across brands.
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Retired Super Moderator and Fighterer
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Posts: 6,146
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Oh man, it's really easy to go between the metric bikes.
These Kawi rims are dirt cheap. And its essentially because they're a tad heavier than the zx 10 rims. So a lot of the 14 guys take the 10 rims and throw them on their 14's and sell these cheaply on fleabay.
I just really like the style of them - and they're cheaper than the race rims.
However, you should check out Aprilia and Dicati rims if you like the split spoke look and want a bit lighter or a rim.
These Kawi rims are dirt cheap. And its essentially because they're a tad heavier than the zx 10 rims. So a lot of the 14 guys take the 10 rims and throw them on their 14's and sell these cheaply on fleabay.
I just really like the style of them - and they're cheaper than the race rims.
However, you should check out Aprilia and Dicati rims if you like the split spoke look and want a bit lighter or a rim.
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