Single biggest issue generally for new riders is "Head Up" when cornering so they can read the entry , apex and exit for that turn. I see too many with their heads down and running out of options about 1/3 of the way through...........it's a classic mistake..............just my 2 cents

 

Good stuff!!!!!! Thanks for all the info from everyone! It's all great!

 

I almost went down yesterday on a blind curve w/ wet leaves!!
Mark

 

hey thanks alot for the posts, thats some good stuff to know. But I got a question, i just picked up my CBR F4i about a week ago and my friend picked up his 600rr about the sametime. We've both been riding around on the 08 ninja 250r as to get more experience with riding a motorcycle. The guy that i bought the bike from told me that the steering stem was slightly bent and it is because of that when going into turns i feel as if i gotta fight the handlebars to keep the bike up. Well with that being said, my friend's 600rr feel like it does the exact same thing. But he tells me that its because of the difference between a 250 and 600 that we gotta counter steer more. Is that correct and is it probable that dont need to replace the steering stem, even though I have a replacement already? Or is there something wrong with the steering with both of our bikes? O_o

 

If the guy told you it was slightly bent he very likely crashed it and knows it was bent, or has good reason to believe it could be bent. You should check the front end to see what kind of condition it is in - who knows what you'll find, but it could become a safety issue.

That said - I'm not sure I'm a fan of the expression "counter steer more".

Some bikes are heavier steering than others - some do require more bar input. Just adjust your tire pressures from 32 psi to 24 psi and you should feel the front end feels like crap - the softer tire doesn't have as angled a profile, so it feels like it resists leaning into a corner.

But counter steering is more than simply leaning - and the process isn't fixed as to how much effort you put in to make a corner, rather, you put the EXACT effort into making the bike corner that the bike needs to make the corner.

Yes - the way I have worded it sounds like splitting hairs - but there is a difference in what is described, and more importantly, when it comes to discussing how the bike feels I find that it is easier to explain what's going on... as a result it is easier to share advice, questions or concerns.

What you should feel between the F4i and the 600RR is that the RR is "quicker" turning in. The geometry of the front end is more tucked in, as a result it resists leaning in less. You can interpret that on the bars as feeling lighter, or quicker.

On the 250r you have a completely different tire size. Being narrower it should feel fairly quick. In my experience it handled lightly and quickly. With enthusiastic enough riding you will encounter suspension feel earlier and that can change your perception of what the front end feels like. If you set up a rear end pogo, the front will feel like it is hunting (for example).

The F4i geometry should make the bike feel more stable than the other two bikes. It might as a result feel heavier, or slower to turn in. I personally really like that feel - however - as you push the F4i to its limits on the track you will find it flattens down too much with stock suspension and feels like it will not turn and it wants to run wide on exits. That occurs for me at 8-9/10ths track pace - and will NOT happen at street speeds.

The F4i tendency to run wide was addressed with steeper steering geometry on the RR and better stock suspension. This made the RR a better track bike, but, was a compromise for street riding. At street speeds the F4i is the better bike - in my eyes.

My advice - think about the tire pressure, stickiness of the tire, steering geometry, suspension settings/quality, and even the angle of the grips. They each play a part in how the bike feels. That being said, they will all make the corner (at far above street speeds) and will always feel different. Feeling different doesn't make it wrong until you're trying to drag a knee around the fastest corner of a track and you start running out of track surface.

My advice on the 250r is to examine the front end - it should be straight. Check the steering stops for dents/missing, as that is generally an easy tell that the bike has been down. Hitting the stops hard enough to knock them off or deform you will tell you that the front end has for sure taken a hit - and that you might want to consider buying 1 hour of shop time for them to measure/inspect.

 

what country are you from?

 

Watch this video ... it is a real eye opener, first the rider tried to get the bike "over" using the fixed, non steering bars ... no matter how hard he tries the bike stays upright and goes straight ahead, climbing around on the bike has little to no effect ... now watch when he uses steering input on the proper handlebars, the bike dances to your tune!!




http://www.superbikeschool.com/video-clips/****.mov


Be in no doubt that "counter steering" is what turns your bike and leaning is what
happens ... and NOT leaning to steer the bike

 

This is such an awesome thread because it gets people to understand whats happening when they ride, the mechanics and physics of it all. to Jules for doing such a good job in spreading the knowledge and making it so easy to understand. Now, how many of us know why their bike turns when it is leaned over? I know a lot of you think that's an asinine question but I'm interested in seeing what kind of answers I get. Anyone? I have to admit I didn't watch all the video links so if this was already covered, my bad.

 

The first time I ever rode a bike I couldn't figure out why it took so long to turn into a corner. It was frustrating, and scary.

Ended up reading this thread, and went out and tried it the next day. Pretty unbelievable what the difference is like now that I'm starting to get the muscle memory down and get the feel for it. Being able to flick the bike back from left to right quickly and on command is pretty awesome, not to mention a ton of fun.

Thank you for this thread, I'm sure it just saved my *** in the future.

 

first off i need to say sorry for this first post. Sorry.
i have been lurking for a while im waiting to get my hands on a 'cane(ive also had a 99 900rr years ago along with other smaller "nondas") and didnt want to register or post until then but i came across this thread and had to throw in some of my thoughts. i will make an official hello first post noob thread soon and again sorry.

i skipped some of the last pages so excuse me if some of this has been covered.
id like to address this "no bs bike" juliet loves so much. i understand that this bike can not turn there for leaning into would do nothing for it and that once in a turn you go back to a neutral bar possition. the bike is turning (front wheel dif angle than straight rear) but dont u think if that wheel was allowed just some play and the handle bars were stationary(like #2 on a bicycle built for two) wouldnt that let the bike to be leaned into a turn? as it would take that given Xinches to follow threw the turn. its been a very long day so i dont know if i am asking correctly but i had to get if off my chest b4 bed.
but im getting this from the good old days of riding bicycles with friends and being a "cool guy" and riding with no hands and wed go for miles around turns and everything no hands so there was no way of counter steering. granted we were not going fast but physics should still work the same smaller tire less speed = more speed larger tire?(not sure if this is true but thats my thought process) also being riden on the back of a bicycle either on the seat or on pegs on the back wheel i could steer from there too just lean. i also agree with as you lean you automatically shorten and lengthen your arm which would make you counter steer making it seem like leaning is what u neeed to do.
also while im waiting for the cane i ride a 150cc scooter sorry. and i can do the same thing, no hands around a turn(throttle cable is broken and i have a string conected to carb i pull between my legs) all i do is us my weight and legs/butt. is there something going on im unaware of? does the shape of the tire make counter steering happen? would a fat wide tire not do this? obviously leaning and counter steering go hand and hand but can one be done with out the other? i think there was a mercedes that has special tire/rims that could tilt from what i remeber. ill look it up

again im sorry this site is great and i love the knowlage experience and science in this one thread so now im here. im off to bed but will be checking back tomarrow and would love to her what you guys have to say.
o and sorry again to the "gramatical guru" from front of the thread cuz i get lazy n prolly gunna type bad sum times sry and my poetic lic. is up to date and valid thank you very large