lol, exactly. i love my glock w 15 mag, and i just picked up a 17 round mag last weeked, and can even get up to a 33 round mag if i ever feel necessary, lol, but i doubt that. if i pick that up thatll just be for entertainment.

 

legal limit in illinois is 11 rounds i beleive that or 13 i cant remember

 

That's also just a 410 with a short barrel. A 12 guage with 00 and an 18" barrel is going to give you a much different result.

Pros of a shotgun:

- Big bang for the buck, you can get an 870 for under 300 used, a Mossberg for even less.
- Devastating power at short range.
- Lots of accessories
- simple to operate
- Reliable. Never had a problem with any of my 870s.

Cons

- Slow rate of fire.
- Big recoil
- Loud
- Long and bulky

You do have to aim a shotgun, at short range the pattern for 00 is about the size of a 1/2 dollar. If you are using it for self defense, you should have it ready to rock, meaning one in the pipe. Rack a round in the dark and you:

- just gave up the element of surprise
- told the intruder/intuders to take cover and if they have not already arm themselves.
- let them know you have a weapon with a slow rate of fire
- let them know where you are in the room and where to start shooting.

I keep a G19 next to the bed, but that is just till I can get to my M4 which is in the safe next to the bed. The 12 guage is right behind the M4 loaded with alternating 00 and slugs.

 

With a little more investigation i found out both targets were made with the same gun. The taurus judge fires both .45 caliber and the special shotgun shells. The shells are both buckshot with 3 solid core slugs.


I might actually get one for home defense. Im pretty sure anyone smaller than a linebacker would have a tough time concealing one.

 

The biggest one!

 

Ha. I can see this getting silly.

How about a 28mm replica model 1859 Remington.






Here are a few carry guns for size comparison if anyone is interested.
bottom: Ruger LCP .380 (pocket gun)
middle: Smith & Wesson M&P9C 9mm (IWB)
top: Glock 21 .45ACP (OWB)



Kuro, on the judge thing... check out this site.

 

Good info there. Ah well, guess I'll stick with my


Don't need to make big noise or a lot of little noise. Despite what people say, .380 has excellent stopping power for a concealable gun with good ammo.

 

nice 21 kilgore, hows the blackhawk treat ya?
i have a crossbreed supertuck for IWB but was considering getting the blackhawk for owb. seems easy to grab, simple to release, and has good retention. how do you like it?

 

what is a good first hand gun? first let me ask you some questions, do you have any experience with fire arms? you say you want to customize whatever gun you get. well here are some ideas for you ,start with a new barrel,a good one that has been custom made for you`re gun about 4to 5 hundred bucks. now go to work on the frame polish the slides enlarge the ejection port around 3 bills,now go after the trigger a good jeweled trigger that is fully adjustable break out a grand! now the bolt, polish and cryogenic treated a bout 6 bills enlarge gas ports misc bolt springs who knows. now you customized you"re gun! so what do you know about reloading? when you customize a gun you need to customize the load,a good re-loader 6bills new dies 2to4billsnow a good supply of powders primers lead tin and mics 5 bills easy. believe it or not i left a lot off this list,the point i am trying to make is start small and move up.some of the posts Ive seen on here about this have gone way off track when you buy you're first gun be realistic will it do what you need it to.can you afford to shoot it enough to be come proficient and safe. i have worked with hunters ed and firearms safety for years. i see people make poor choices of firearms the end result they do not enjoy shooting,

 

Thanks, man. I love the blackhawk. I expected not to like the retention, but it was easy to warm up to. Now it feels natural to pull in one motion. I don't even think about unlocking it.

geezer,
while I agree that customizing can be expensive, you're quoting some crazy mods and prices, imo. There are plenty of things you can do that aren't terribly expensive. It's kinda like a custom "bike" vs. a $200,000 custom thunder cycle. I would never get a bolt cryogenically frozen for instance.
The 1911 platform can be expensive to mod, but doesn't have to be. Wolf, fusion, and wilson combat come to mind.
Same with glocks, etc. Night sights, extended releases, ss guide rods, barrels, finishing, aftermarket springs, etc. It's all relatively cheap.
And with reloading, you don't "have" to roll your own. But even if you decide to, it doesn't have to cost that much. I have 2 lee presses that I've cranked thousands of rounds from. One press was like $80 and the progressive was $230 set up to run .45ACP. Dies are around $30/set on ebay and can be less if you're patient.
My lyman tumbler was $50, .45ACP pills from Missouri are $60/1000. Primers are around $25/1000 and a $25 can of powder can last a long time when reloading pistol.
Plus, reloading is fun!
You're right that this certainly isn't the cheapest hobby, but it doesn't have to be that bad. Plus, depending on the deal you get on the gun, many times you can get your money back and then some.


Yeah, that's a decent price for a new GI. The mil-spec is generally about $75-100 more and has some nice features, tho. It comes with the different sights, beveled mag well, polished ramp, stainless and throated barrel, lowered/flared ejection port, and cocobola grips.
Honestly, though, if I were you I'd look into the used market. Many guns just don't get fired much, and in this economy there are some GREAT deals out there if you're patient and know where to look.