Are voters more entitled to freedom of speech?
#41
10-04-2008, 04:29 AM
RE: Are voters more entitled to freedom of speech?
ORIGINAL: SpiritRR
I like voting, too, makes me feel part of something bigger. But honestly, my course in U.S. history this year is illuminating a great deal about this country. I had always thought we were a republic of patriots wrapped in red, white, and blue flags bent on fulfilling manifest destiny...zomg, uh, not even close. More like deception, paranoia, and murder...from day one. But that's what I get for being raised in a white christian school system. lol
I like voting, too, makes me feel part of something bigger. But honestly, my course in U.S. history this year is illuminating a great deal about this country. I had always thought we were a republic of patriots wrapped in red, white, and blue flags bent on fulfilling manifest destiny...zomg, uh, not even close. More like deception, paranoia, and murder...from day one. But that's what I get for being raised in a white christian school system. lol
Yup, its straight to hell in a handbasket for you guys ... you have an appointment with Basement Cat!!
#42
10-04-2008, 07:42 AM
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RE: Are voters more entitled to freedom of speech?
As a Soldier, who has been deployed in support of the war, ithurts my heartto hear us talk down about our country. My wife, the mother of my children, deploys this December for our rights, and freedoms. Aweasel, if you were a black man, who once was not able to vote because of the color of your skin, would your mind change?
I feel as if people take for granted the fact that it is every Americans right to Vote.My mother in law is a felon that wished she could vote, but because she stole some food to take care of her children 20 years ago, she cant, ever.If the Govt said that you must make at least $125,000 a year as a household to vote, many of you wouldnt make the cut. I honestly feel as if you would want to vote just because you couldnt.
Bottom line is, (mods dont kill me) aww *** it, dont even wanna go there. You can always vote for the independent party. Just vote, because you have the right. DoI believe everything the candidates say theyre gonna do? No, most of it is impossible anyway.buthe has a good rep with me untilHE ****s it up. White, black, man, or woman.
I feel as if people take for granted the fact that it is every Americans right to Vote.My mother in law is a felon that wished she could vote, but because she stole some food to take care of her children 20 years ago, she cant, ever.If the Govt said that you must make at least $125,000 a year as a household to vote, many of you wouldnt make the cut. I honestly feel as if you would want to vote just because you couldnt.
Bottom line is, (mods dont kill me) aww *** it, dont even wanna go there. You can always vote for the independent party. Just vote, because you have the right. DoI believe everything the candidates say theyre gonna do? No, most of it is impossible anyway.buthe has a good rep with me untilHE ****s it up. White, black, man, or woman.
#43
10-04-2008, 09:31 AM
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RE: Are voters more entitled to freedom of speech?
ORIGINAL: doogstar
As a Soldier, who has been deployed in support of the war, it hurts my heart to hear us talk down about our country. My wife, the mother of my children, deploys this December for our rights, and freedoms. Aweasel, if you were a black man, who once was not able to vote because of the color of your skin, would your mind change?
I feel as if people take for granted the fact that it is every Americans right to Vote. My mother in law is a felon that wished she could vote, but because she stole some food to take care of her children 20 years ago, she cant, ever. If the Govt said that you must make at least $125,000 a year as a household to vote, many of you wouldnt make the cut. I honestly feel as if you would want to vote just because you couldnt.
Bottom line is, (mods dont kill me) aww *** it, dont even wanna go there. You can always vote for the independent party. Just vote, because you have the right. Do I believe everything the candidates say theyre gonna do? No, most of it is impossible anyway. but he has a good rep with me until HE ****s it up. White, black, man, or woman.
As a Soldier, who has been deployed in support of the war, it hurts my heart to hear us talk down about our country. My wife, the mother of my children, deploys this December for our rights, and freedoms. Aweasel, if you were a black man, who once was not able to vote because of the color of your skin, would your mind change?
I feel as if people take for granted the fact that it is every Americans right to Vote. My mother in law is a felon that wished she could vote, but because she stole some food to take care of her children 20 years ago, she cant, ever. If the Govt said that you must make at least $125,000 a year as a household to vote, many of you wouldnt make the cut. I honestly feel as if you would want to vote just because you couldnt.
Bottom line is, (mods dont kill me) aww *** it, dont even wanna go there. You can always vote for the independent party. Just vote, because you have the right. Do I believe everything the candidates say theyre gonna do? No, most of it is impossible anyway. but he has a good rep with me until HE ****s it up. White, black, man, or woman.
I put some thought into your question that asked "if you were a black man, who once was not able to vote because of the color of your skin, would your mind change?" I really can't put myself in the shoes of people who fought so hard for the rights and privileges that were just freely handed to white men like me, but I suspect my answer to your question would be yes. You are right, I would probably want to vote more if I couldn't, but wanting something I can't have is a common human desire, and nary a reason to participate in an election.
The people I originally spoke about feel that voting is a responsibility rather than a right. It's not, and the constitution is very clear about it. I hate to use the cliché "I don't like either candidate" argument, so I'll take that a step further. Where's the "none of the above" option? What if I feel that I don't need an entire hierarchy of leadership at a ridiculous number of levels from borough to division to city to state to region to nation? Why do I need so much damned "leadership", and what's my option if I feel I don't need to be "lead?"
Perhaps I would feel different about this if I had the smallest inkling that my "representatives" actually conveyed the best interest of myself and my fellow citizens, but they don't. It's disconcerting that even though I have a dozen or so people who "represent" me specifically, I still have no voice. Some people believe voting is their voice, but if I go to a Penguins game, nobody is going to hear me yelling over the sound of 17,132 people...how the hell can I expect to be heard over the 125,736,000 who voted in the last election?
Call me ignorant or un-patriotic or whatever else you will, but I feel how I feel. I've read all the responses thus far, and I think there are some great thoughts out there. Nobody is wrong on this thread, as we all have our own opinions on voting and that should be respected. I thank everybody for keeping this civil. I'm impressed and surprised at how everybody was able to convey passion while displaying an appropriate level of constraint, so thank you for that.
#44
10-04-2008, 12:05 PM
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RE: Are voters more entitled to freedom of speech?
ill vote on the lil admendments and bills and tax issues that are delt with locally and what not. i just dont see a reason to vote for the prez since it dont matter what we say, just what the electoral college says. its funny that we are a republic but in every country that we go to war with, we are sayin that we wanna spread democracy.
#45
10-04-2008, 12:21 PM
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#46
10-04-2008, 01:03 PM
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#47
10-04-2008, 01:17 PM
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#48
10-04-2008, 01:23 PM
RE: Are voters more entitled to freedom of speech?
The act of not voting, in my opinion is the equivalent of voting. You are saying that neither candidate did enough (or promise the things that are important to you) to win your vote. It's the equivalent of voting for the Green party. It's very difficult to find a candidate whose values conform to your own. Most of the time, I find that I like a candidate and what he is preaching, but inevitably, something will come up that will be a deal breaker. Many times you are stuck with voting for the lesser of two evils.
I feel my vote is only a drop in the bucket. It's the equivalent of someone becoming a vegetarian to save the animals. It's a good practice and it certainly makes you feel better about yourself, but it's such a small factor that it hardly makes a dent. The things that need to be changed need to be changed on a much larger scale. You have to have those people who try to influence others, or convince one of the rule makers that it's the right path to take. The same goes for voting. You can vote for whoever you want, but it's ultimately not going to make a difference unless you are able to influence others to follow suit.
I fully concur with this. To quote Randy Pausch (you guys are probably sick of me bringing this guy up):
"In one practice, my Football coach - Jim Graham - just rode me all practice. He was constantly criticizing me 'You’re doing this wrong, you’re doing this wrong, go back and do it again, you owe me, you’re doing push-ups after practice'. And when it was all over, one of the other assistant coaches came over and said, yeah, Coach Graham rode you pretty hard, didn’t he? I said, yeah. He said, that’s a good thing. He said, 'when you’re screwing up and nobody’s saying anything to you anymore, that means they gave up'. And that’s a lesson that stuck with me my whole life. Is that when you see yourself doing something badly and nobody’s bothering to tell you anymore, that’s a very bad place to be. Your critics are your ones telling you they still love you and care."
Worked in Bruster's Millions. "vote none of the above"
I feel my vote is only a drop in the bucket. It's the equivalent of someone becoming a vegetarian to save the animals. It's a good practice and it certainly makes you feel better about yourself, but it's such a small factor that it hardly makes a dent. The things that need to be changed need to be changed on a much larger scale. You have to have those people who try to influence others, or convince one of the rule makers that it's the right path to take. The same goes for voting. You can vote for whoever you want, but it's ultimately not going to make a difference unless you are able to influence others to follow suit.
Shoortbuus
doog, I have a great respect for your passion and opinion on this, but please keep in mind that our bad mouthing of this country is due criticism, and we do it because we love this place too. I am disappointed in what our over-sized government has become, or perhaps what it always was from the beginning.
doog, I have a great respect for your passion and opinion on this, but please keep in mind that our bad mouthing of this country is due criticism, and we do it because we love this place too. I am disappointed in what our over-sized government has become, or perhaps what it always was from the beginning.
"In one practice, my Football coach - Jim Graham - just rode me all practice. He was constantly criticizing me 'You’re doing this wrong, you’re doing this wrong, go back and do it again, you owe me, you’re doing push-ups after practice'. And when it was all over, one of the other assistant coaches came over and said, yeah, Coach Graham rode you pretty hard, didn’t he? I said, yeah. He said, that’s a good thing. He said, 'when you’re screwing up and nobody’s saying anything to you anymore, that means they gave up'. And that’s a lesson that stuck with me my whole life. Is that when you see yourself doing something badly and nobody’s bothering to tell you anymore, that’s a very bad place to be. Your critics are your ones telling you they still love you and care."
Shoortbuus
Where's the "none of the above" option?
Where's the "none of the above" option?
#49
10-04-2008, 01:38 PM
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RE: Are voters more entitled to freedom of speech?
ORIGINAL: woo545
You are saying that neither candidate did enough (or promise the things that are important to you) to win your vote. It's very difficult to find a candidate whose values conform to your own. Most of the time, I find that I like a candidate and what he is preaching, but inevitably, something will come up that will be a deal breaker. Many times you are stuck with voting for the lesser of two evils.
You are saying that neither candidate did enough (or promise the things that are important to you) to win your vote. It's very difficult to find a candidate whose values conform to your own. Most of the time, I find that I like a candidate and what he is preaching, but inevitably, something will come up that will be a deal breaker. Many times you are stuck with voting for the lesser of two evils.
I try to look only at the issues, past voting records of the candidate and the party stance on the issue.......
Some things pretty much follow the party such as;
Pro life
pro nuclear
pro military
small government
Pro gun
tend to be republican stances and if you believe that way, they have your best intrest
Pro choice
Anti nuclear
Pro green
Anti gun
anti business
Pro social programs
Tend to be democratic stances.....
Its almost easier to pick the issues then pick the party to fit your views......Just my opinion...
#50
10-04-2008, 02:17 PM
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RE: Are voters more entitled to freedom of speech?
^^^
Thus is the fundamental problem with a 2-party system. It's either one set of beliefs or the other. Where do people like me go when we believe in side X's stand on some issues and side Y's stand on the other? Some of the alternate parties have more appealing "belief packages," but voting for them isn't a viable option. Depending on the candidates, a third party vote usually is in favor of one candidate or another.
The other option is prioritizing your beliefs and going with the candidate that best exemplifies your values, but that is crazy in my opinion. Most issues are of equal importance to me, and I refuse to rank them just so I can pick a side. It's not right.
Thus is the fundamental problem with a 2-party system. It's either one set of beliefs or the other. Where do people like me go when we believe in side X's stand on some issues and side Y's stand on the other? Some of the alternate parties have more appealing "belief packages," but voting for them isn't a viable option. Depending on the candidates, a third party vote usually is in favor of one candidate or another.
The other option is prioritizing your beliefs and going with the candidate that best exemplifies your values, but that is crazy in my opinion. Most issues are of equal importance to me, and I refuse to rank them just so I can pick a side. It's not right.