msf and crashing?
#11
07-23-2006, 05:41 PM
RE: msf and crashing?
OK Wood i know your making reference to my comment about over riding your headlight at night...learned that in a MSf class...and i also learned another thing..we dont call em accidents we call em crashes..Accidents DO NOT HAPPEN on a motorcycle...or in a car.You dont accidentally do 90mph in a 40 zone in a car..or accidentally crash in a curve....most curves even in the sticks are marked well before u enter even switchbacks.
I crashed in a curve...why...improper speed wrong entry not enuff lean too much brake.Every time u get thru another trip out on a bike and dont crash its because you use what youve learned which is 99% of us. But its the one percenters that crash not have accidents.Crashes are preventable occurances.Im all for alot of speed now and again but i do it where the risk factor is low...like on a country stretch not in freeway traffic.
Im glad that people out there wanna bang up the MSF when the guys that put on that class are bikers just like you and i who are WILLING to give up their summers to teach WILLING individuals the BASICS of operating a motorcycle.They also tell you that u can be seriuosly injured if you ride outside of your abilities.
There is probably alot of double speak in there but i know the message was directed at me for the overriding the headlight comment.
Im guessing you never took a course so you really wouldnt remember anything that was taught there.The Illnois class is 30 hrs long and i took it after 7 years out on the road and learned that my CRASH was preventable and it wasnt an accident.There is nothing accidental about goin into a bean field at 80...not one thing...
I crashed in a curve...why...improper speed wrong entry not enuff lean too much brake.Every time u get thru another trip out on a bike and dont crash its because you use what youve learned which is 99% of us. But its the one percenters that crash not have accidents.Crashes are preventable occurances.Im all for alot of speed now and again but i do it where the risk factor is low...like on a country stretch not in freeway traffic.
Im glad that people out there wanna bang up the MSF when the guys that put on that class are bikers just like you and i who are WILLING to give up their summers to teach WILLING individuals the BASICS of operating a motorcycle.They also tell you that u can be seriuosly injured if you ride outside of your abilities.
There is probably alot of double speak in there but i know the message was directed at me for the overriding the headlight comment.
Im guessing you never took a course so you really wouldnt remember anything that was taught there.The Illnois class is 30 hrs long and i took it after 7 years out on the road and learned that my CRASH was preventable and it wasnt an accident.There is nothing accidental about goin into a bean field at 80...not one thing...
#12
07-23-2006, 06:25 PM
RE: msf and crashing?
Wood83 makes a good point. Not everyone that goes down, or has a close call needs the MSF course. Incidentaly, I've been there - the person who griped about a rough ride (no crash) and was told to take the MSF course to learn how to ride. Actually the skills to get through that spot were automatic. That's why the plastic on my bike is still whole. It wasn't comfortable situation, but one that could be handled. No MSF needed. Which isn't to say I know everything about riding, I don't. But from descriptions of the basic MSF course, it most likely would be nothing new. I'm not sure that can be said for people who have been riding only a short time and may not realize just how much they don't know about riding.
As for the slow speeds and class time, you learn at half the speed to give a rank beginner time to remember which is the clutch and which is the brake. A beginner hasn't yet developed automatic use of either, so need time to think through the moves. Ditto driving between cones. And class time to explain things is essential for many first time riders.
As for the slow speeds and class time, you learn at half the speed to give a rank beginner time to remember which is the clutch and which is the brake. A beginner hasn't yet developed automatic use of either, so need time to think through the moves. Ditto driving between cones. And class time to explain things is essential for many first time riders.
#13
07-23-2006, 08:21 PM
RE: msf and crashing?
i bet there is a lot of people on here like me as the only reason they took the msf course was to get a state endorsement in their liscense, either way the classroom knowledge was useful but i agree with the fact that riding 250's around in a parking lot doesnt do much for you.
#14
07-24-2006, 03:54 AM
RE: msf and crashing?
I've been riding on and off for at least 20 years. I'm not going to bad mouth the MSF course, because it does what it's supposed to do. It teaches the "basics" of riding a motorcycle. It is by no means a replacement for experience. With that being said, I HAD to take a MSF course last year to be able to ride a motorcycle on base. I am in the military and this is a requirement. So, I took the experienced riders course and it suit me fine. It's a much shorter course then the beginners course because the instructors expect you to know how the bike operates and how to react to the required drills. During the course, I even learned a thing or two. There is nothing that I can think of that reading about or practicing for a couple hours will make someone an expert. With motorcycles even the experts crash.
Just my $0.02.
Just my $0.02.
#15
07-24-2006, 09:47 AM
Admin Emeritus & MVN
RE: msf and crashing?
ORIGINAL: cbr900rrfan
i bet there is a lot of people on here like me as the only reason they took the msf course was to get a state endorsement in their liscense, either way the classroom knowledge was useful but i agree with the fact that riding 250's around in a parking lot doesnt do much for you.
i bet there is a lot of people on here like me as the only reason they took the msf course was to get a state endorsement in their liscense, either way the classroom knowledge was useful but i agree with the fact that riding 250's around in a parking lot doesnt do much for you.
It cost me $50 and an entire weekend but I saved way more than that on my insurance (ya get 10% discount) and kept the judge happy.
#16
07-24-2006, 11:40 AM
RE: msf and crashing?
I'm guitly of making a comment when someone posted about their crash, too. The guy entered a turn too fast and i pointed out that in the MSF they say that that is the #1 reason people crash when by themselves...
In fact, almost every crash that happens on this site reminds me of something that was said in the MSF. Is this knowledge going to stop you from ever crashing? No, but i think it is interesting and a testament to the class on how much they cover. If the guy i reposnded to knew that entering a turn too fast was the #1 solo related problem, maybe he would have thought about it as he entered the turn and been alright.
The MSF doesnt teach you how to take that high speed turn, but it gives you good info to think about, which is worth sometimes IMO.
In fact, almost every crash that happens on this site reminds me of something that was said in the MSF. Is this knowledge going to stop you from ever crashing? No, but i think it is interesting and a testament to the class on how much they cover. If the guy i reposnded to knew that entering a turn too fast was the #1 solo related problem, maybe he would have thought about it as he entered the turn and been alright.
The MSF doesnt teach you how to take that high speed turn, but it gives you good info to think about, which is worth sometimes IMO.
#17
07-24-2006, 12:19 PM
RE: msf and crashing?
ORIGINAL: CBRFREEK
OK Wood i know your making reference to my comment about over riding your headlight at night...learned that in a MSf class...and i also learned another thing..we dont call em accidents we call em crashes..Accidents DO NOT HAPPEN on a motorcycle...or in a car.You dont accidentally do 90mph in a 40 zone in a car..or accidentally crash in a curve....most curves even in the sticks are marked well before u enter even switchbacks.
I crashed in a curve...why...improper speed wrong entry not enuff lean too much brake.Every time u get thru another trip out on a bike and dont crash its because you use what youve learned which is 99% of us. But its the one percenters that crash not have accidents.Crashes are preventable occurances.Im all for alot of speed now and again but i do it where the risk factor is low...like on a country stretch not in freeway traffic.
Im glad that people out there wanna bang up the MSF when the guys that put on that class are bikers just like you and i who are WILLING to give up their summers to teach WILLING individuals the BASICS of operating a motorcycle.They also tell you that u can be seriuosly injured if you ride outside of your abilities.
There is probably alot of double speak in there but i know the message was directed at me for the overriding the headlight comment.
Im guessing you never took a course so you really wouldnt remember anything that was taught there.The Illnois class is 30 hrs long and i took it after 7 years out on the road and learned that my CRASH was preventable and it wasnt an accident.There is nothing accidental about goin into a bean field at 80...not one thing...
OK Wood i know your making reference to my comment about over riding your headlight at night...learned that in a MSf class...and i also learned another thing..we dont call em accidents we call em crashes..Accidents DO NOT HAPPEN on a motorcycle...or in a car.You dont accidentally do 90mph in a 40 zone in a car..or accidentally crash in a curve....most curves even in the sticks are marked well before u enter even switchbacks.
I crashed in a curve...why...improper speed wrong entry not enuff lean too much brake.Every time u get thru another trip out on a bike and dont crash its because you use what youve learned which is 99% of us. But its the one percenters that crash not have accidents.Crashes are preventable occurances.Im all for alot of speed now and again but i do it where the risk factor is low...like on a country stretch not in freeway traffic.
Im glad that people out there wanna bang up the MSF when the guys that put on that class are bikers just like you and i who are WILLING to give up their summers to teach WILLING individuals the BASICS of operating a motorcycle.They also tell you that u can be seriuosly injured if you ride outside of your abilities.
There is probably alot of double speak in there but i know the message was directed at me for the overriding the headlight comment.
Im guessing you never took a course so you really wouldnt remember anything that was taught there.The Illnois class is 30 hrs long and i took it after 7 years out on the road and learned that my CRASH was preventable and it wasnt an accident.There is nothing accidental about goin into a bean field at 80...not one thing...
#18
07-24-2006, 12:23 PM
#19
07-24-2006, 05:43 PM
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RE: msf and crashing?
I taught myself how to ride a month ago. I rode a few other friends bikes around a block and in parking lots before but I wanted my own bike so I went out and got one and taught myself how to ride it on the way home. lol I'm taking the MSF because it was one of the oh I can't think of the word but things that I HAD to do for my parents to let me get a bike, that and wear a helmet all the time. It costs $120 here in Wisconsin and since I bought a brand new bike Honda is giving me $75 upon completion of the course. Completing it will also give me a discount on my $125 a month insurance premiums. =D Not to mention that I am hoping that it will help me fine tune the skills I have already taught myself and make me a better and more confident rider.
As far as the track day I think I would LOVE to do that. Does anyone know anywhere around Milwaukee WI that has had experience and is a good place? I think that would be a lot of fun and hopefully help me in the twisties! =)
Mike
As far as the track day I think I would LOVE to do that. Does anyone know anywhere around Milwaukee WI that has had experience and is a good place? I think that would be a lot of fun and hopefully help me in the twisties! =)
Mike
#20
07-24-2006, 06:08 PM
Join Date: May 2006
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RE: msf and crashing?
I taught myself to ride and during my 5th consecutive year (while I rode now and then here and there for many years before this I still considered myself a novice) I am still rubber side down and shiny side up. Sure I race around every now and then but I guess I just don't push it for fear of laying it down regardless of proper training. Any course is a good idea and I certainly wouldn't tell someone not to take it. Anyone can learn at any point in their riding career. But just because you do take a course doesn't mean you are immune to crashing/accidents. Or because you don't you are a squid just waiting to cause an accident.