I'm not arguing the fact that you are legally allowed to kill someone to protect yourself. I'm arguing that you are messed up if you think you need to kill someone to protect yourself. I'm also arguing the fact that you whipping out your gun makes it even more of a deadly and dangerous situation. Therefore, it isnt preventing the crime (which luckily it did for BT), but inviting more gun violence.

As have been said, in other countries like Australia, there is no question that crime exists, but, they have a ton less fatalitied related to guns.

The stricter laws work! Imagine that!

So, you owning a gun only hurts the problem. You, my gun toting friends, are part of the problem, not the solution.

 

Well, now this IS turning political because my issues are mainly with the gun laws. Next to that, the people who feel as if they need to carry rubs me wrong too, but since you are just a product of the rules i cannot really argue. I hope, though, that maybe one of you will realize how rediculous it is to say that more guns will mean safer streets/people and give yours up.

 

I don't see much difference in your wright to carry a firearm or your wright not to ware a helmet. It's up to each one of us what we do. If you have made a wrong choice then it's your problem, not mine.
Remember "There's a Butt for Every Seat"

 

In no way is this turning political. We all have the wright to speak and do what we like. Thats why it is so great to live where we do.
Flip, I have to say that if you feel it is a political issue now you must think it has to go your way and I don't have a voice or the wright to do what I wish.
BT

 

I dont think anyone would argue that less helmets equals safer riding... but you seem to want to argue that more guns equal safer America. So, they are very different.

Plus, i hate to be "that guy", but i am unsure if you are spelling 'right' and 'wear' wrong on purpose or not. I hate to have to throw this out there, but it leads me to think that less educated people lean toward the side of gun ownership. A very wrong stereotype, i'm sure, but i sometimes it does fit the bill.

 

Flip,

Austrailia and England saw a huge inrease in gun related crime since the implementation of their gun controll laws. Look at the US cities/States with the strictest laws on firearms. They also have the highest murder rates.

Washington DC has a complete ban on handgun ownership for over 2 decades. They have been the murder capital of the US for several years running.

Chicago, Detriot, et all have the same problem.

On the other hand, all the CCW shall issue states have seen dramatic decreases in violent crime since the enactment of these laws.

Florida, Arizona, Texas, Utah....... Every case is the same. CCW holders are accountable for far less than .05% of firearm related crime on a national basis.

Your assumption that the use of a firearm aggravates, or escallates the situation is just plain wrong. It is a feeling/emotion based argument that will not stand up to scrutiny as it lacks facts and logic behind it. Studies have shown that criminals target victims based on several factors. The most prevelant of those factors is the resistance put up by the victim. Would you rob with a guy who was 6'6" and 240lbs of solid muscle, while wearing his Gi/Dobok after leaving a martial arts class, or would you prefer the 5'4" frail woman who posed no threat?

It is very easy to prove how the use of a firearm in a defensive manner prevents crime. Your assumptions to the contrary.

 

Garsh Flip, i feel so bad dat u figered out dat if ya cant spel dat i be maken up four it wit my guns. I am pretty thick skinned but this will be the last time you and I will debate this here.
My Best, Jess (BT)

 

Oh facts and stats, we all love them and we all have them:

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FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:

373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States
(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).

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The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

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Guns kept in the home for self-protection are 43 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to kill in self-defense. [ Kellermann and Reay, N.E. Journal of Medicine]

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Every two years, more Americans die of gunshot than there were American soldiers killed during the entire Vietnam War [National Center for Health Statistics, Department of Defense Almanac]

 

I hated to bring it up and i'm sorry, but it is true that some issues like gun ownership and war are overwhelmingly supported by southern republicans who tend to have less education than northern democrats. I dont make this **** up. It is a very backhanded point and i realize that.

 

flip, i have a question for you .. do you honestly believe that if all citizens were no longer allowed to legally posses and carry firearms that this action would decrease gun related crimes ? its not the law abiding citizens that you should be worried about. its the same reasoning behind theives who want to steal your bike if they want something they are going to take it.. if theives want a gun they will and can very easily get it. that is a cold hard reality. the citizens who apply for CWP and go through the courses and all the paper work and back ground checks are generally not the people who will be the ones involved with crimes. and by you saying that and i quote "So, you owning a gun only hurts the problem. You, my gun toting friends, are part of the problem, not the solution. " your suggesting that law abiding citizens just make our criminal problems worse. even if people did decide to give up their weapons criminals would seize this as an opportunity to escalate violence. as brianAZ said "Would you rob with a guy who was 6'6" and 240lbs of solid muscle, while wearing his Gi/Dobok after leaving a martial arts class, or would you prefer the 5'4" frail woman who posed no threat?"criminals are opportunistic by their very nature so by disarming people you make it easier for them