I think you overestimate how easy it would be to get a gun if you only had the black market. Banning private ownership of handguns and severely limiting the ability to buy one would defenitely help the problem. I sound like a broken record, the philosophy of more guns equals a safer country is SO flawed.

 

guns circulate ... one person finishes with it someone else uses it .. **** it only take one bullet to kill someone .. the amount of guns doesnt mean ****..

 

and with that way of thinking we are destined to continue to shoot ourselves.

 

This will not turn into a political debate regarding laws or lack thereof. Please consider that the debate currently in this thread has nothing to do with the original post. Also consider that no matter how strongly your personal views might be, you're not going to change anyone's world with a witty post on an internet forum. And finally consider that 94.756% of statistics are made up on the spot.

So in closing -- keep it to the original nature of the starting post. If you wanna argue there are plenty of places to take it --just not here. Remember, ya meet the nicest people on a Honda ... and the fastest on a CBR

 

Why not just move. If you're in an area where you feel threatened why are you there? Especially if you have kids! Do you want your kids growing up in a neighborhood where you have to walk out the door strapped every day? What does that teach your kids? It's going to teach them that it's ok to walk around with a gun because mommy or daddy does. Other than what it teaches them what about their safety? Don't you want your kids to grow up in a good neighborhood? Somewhere safe and secure that they don't have to worry about their safety? I just think if you live in an area that the only way you can feel safe is to carry yo gat around so az to pop sum fooz if need be then perhaps you're living in the wrong area?

To the "hotheaded" people, I think you need some medication. lol No disrespect but you're probably the ones in the club that always want to start a fight because you think you're all hot stuff and you get whatever you want no matter what. I appologize but I just really dislike this type of attitude. I've ran into it so many times when we go out. People will run into you and then look at you and expect you to say sorry for getting in their way. I've been with some friends where these two idiots wanted to start a fight with me because I was served first at the bar when they were there first. They started talking crap right in the club on my way back to our area with drinks and I just said I'm sorry and kept walking away while I hear them yelling crap at me from behind. My friends saw them and were all like what's up with those idiots I just said to forget about it people with that attitude just aren't worth it.

Anyway, it's 5:56 and 4 minutes until I go home. I have more examples and a bit more of my opinion but going home is more important than staying at work typing. =)

Mike

 

First off, yes, I do have a CCW. And I have never known a more indepth screening process than what was required to get the permit.

Flip, I think you are underestimating what a black market can do for the criminals. Lets not forget that most offenders are repeat offenders.
Sales of guns to law-abiding citizens is the answer here. This way we have accountabilty and records.

Flip, just because guns are for sale doesn't mean a "more guns equals a safer country" policy is in effect.

 

About 3 yrs ago a good friend of mine was shot and killed while sitting in his bed watching television. He was an older man, close to 70 and one of the nicest people you could ever hope to meet. He had been a teacher for many years and a "missionary" in India before that. I worked with him every now and then when he needed help maintaining some apts that he owned. I actually helped him the same day he was shot. I left their house around 7pm or so after eating with him and his wife, and when I got to my sisters house about 30 min away, she told me that he had been shot. He died in his wife's arms (of 50 some odd years) before the ambulance got there.
After a couple months of detective work the police finally found the guy who did it. He was 20 and lived within sight of my friends house. He told the police that he did it and the reason for it was that he "felt the house was evil" and that someone there had to die. He had been into trouble before and was living with his grandfather due to his family not wanting to put up with him and his B.S. He didn't have a job. When he was put into jail he was violent and fought with the other inmates. He is still in jail and as far as I've heard his trial is still ongoing.
My friend had 2 boys, now in their 40's, one of whom loves guns and one of whom has no qualms one way or the other. The one who loves guns taught me how to shoot and respect the firearm. To treat it like it is always loaded, never point it at anyone unless you plan to use it, never assume it is empty when you drop the clip, don't drink and shoot, and other basic shooting rules. When his dad was shot it made him think long and hard about guns, but in the end he still has them and still enjoys shooting.
The problem here was not the fact that the perp used a gun to kill my friend, like he said, he felt someone there had to die. Did a gun make it easier for him to kill? Absolutely! Would he have changed his mind if guns were not available? Probably not. He would have found some other way to do his dirty work.
This world is full of people who hate and kill and steal and commit all kinds of crimes. Before there were guns people used bows and arrows, mauls, swords, or even rocks to do the same thing. The problem is not the weapon they used to commit the crime but rather the mindset that caused them to commit the crime in the first place.
I really enjoy going out for a day of target shooting. It's fun, it's relaxing and there's nothing like hanging out with some guys who think like you do. Do I think the world would be a better place without guns or weapons? Yes, I do. But I also think that if there were none we would still have the same problems that exist in the world today. You can kill a person with your bare hands, it does not require a weapon of any kind. Guns & weapons are not the problem, and since we have them, I will continue to head out to the hills every now and then and have a little fun, and I'll continue to do it with the son of the friend who was killed.

Guns are dangerous. Respect them.

My favorite piece
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IMH(umble)O Flip and the rest of us are arguing from widely divergent social and cultural viewpoints. Citizens of almost every European and European-based country except the United States have long histories dating from feudal times of being totally protected by their government and continue to expect that. Most have also become used to being disarmed, originally not so much because their governments were worried about the people's safety, but because governments were afraid of their citizens. The United States made a total break from that tradition with the Revolutionary War and has never looked back. A large percentage of the people living here are self reliant - willing and able to take care of themselves. Admittedly that attitude is waning. Our government is becoming more intrusive and is taking control of our lives at the request of its citizens as witnessed by the growth of agencies such as the EPA, NHSTA and OSHA. As the U.S. becomes increasingly urban, there is a growing group of people who have never been around firearms, are afraid of them, and so want them banned. Even so there is a large contingent of people who feel responsible and able to take care of themselves. I believe there is also a vague distrust of government agencies, including law enforcement agencies, and their ability to keep us safe. Thus, many carry weapons where such may be needed, a behavior foreign to those outside the U.S. To be honest, I prefer the freedom from restrictions that may give rise to the need to care for myself and my own. By the way, I don't carry. Never have. Probably won't. I do have firearms in the house, but if they were ever needed I'd be in trouble, as they are all locked away separately from the ammunition. I have no problem with those who do carry legally. As stated above the vetting is pretty thorough in most states. I'd guess the discussion is pretty much fruitless. We aren't going to change Flip's mind, and isn't going to change ours.

Snowboard: my family has always lived in a 'safe' neighborhood in a 'safe' city. Our home has been broken into twice, I was attacked and beaten by a gang two blocks from home as a teenager. There are no totally safe places. Except maybe in Australia. Well, maybe not. Flip alludes to violence there also.

Flip's statistics: nobody has ever been killed by a handgun, although they may have killed by someone using a handgun. You might as well say people are killed by motorcycles, when in fact it is someone's lack of ability to drive a car or bike safely that caused the fatal accident. Inanimate objects are incapable of volitional action. Just one of my pet peeves.

An interesting aside: guns are banned in England. Now there are enough knifings that a group of physicians is reportedly lobbying to have any knife over five inches long banned - including chef's knives, boning knives and others used for cooking. Not particularly germain to this thread, but interesting.

 

A great deal of thought went into the last two posts. Both were a good read Thank you.
BT

 

A very good example of gun control was in New Orleans after Katrina hit. They went door to door and took all the citizens firearms thinking no one would have them. As soon as all the citizens were disarmed they had to call in the national guard to help stop the shootings and violence brought on by the undesirable that still had their guns.
In the United States we all have the right to protect what is ours, and I feel it would be my personal responsibility to intervene and help a neighbor or even a person at the bank tellers window that has a gun in their face, maybe about to be shot, maybe not. I don't feel we can just stand by and let the criminal element take over our lives.