I don't get what you're saying...you can buy brand new 250s and 500s from Honda this year. From the standpoint of buying a 250, I would much prefer a CBR250R over a Ninja 250, the FI and modern design really make it a good bike. I've loved mine and I never had any issues with it. I also learned a lot on it and it has allowed me to build the riding skills I need to move up to bigger bikes which is what I'm looking at now.

 

Whats wrong with them? Everything, starting with the fact there are 4. I grew up with carbs and I dislike them very much. Stock and mildly modified bikes don't need a PC or tuner so that didn't enter into my thoughts when I suggested no carbs. Fuel injection is simple, reliable, and you don't ever have to adjust it unless you start making big modifications. New riders have enough to remember, they don't need things like fuel petcocks and choke settings added in.
If we get further into it, what happens when you leave gas in the bike and let it sit for 6 months with carbs? Your pulling, disassembling, cleaning, putting back together and re-installing 4 carbs. Do that with a fuel injected bike and you might have to change the fuel filter, thats it. When the fuel curve needs adjustment you have 4 carbs to do the remove and install dance with, with fuel injection its some buttons pushed.

 

Since I may be the reason this thread was brought up, here are my thoughts:

My very first riding experience was taking the MSF class, and I cannot emphasize how important I think this is for new riders. In fact, I think it should be a requirement to receive your motorcycle license nation wide. If you want to ride, your first concern should never be what bike you're going to buy. Sure, you can dream and research and all of that. But your first focus should be learning how to ride properly.

I took the MSF class, passed with flying colors, and got my license. I was very confident on a motorcycle. Not in the sense that I was ready to drag knees or anything. I simply wasn't nervous or worried when I was on one. I see a lot of new riders who are taught by friends and only have a temporary license that are incredibly timid riders -- so overly concerned that they forget about things like the ******* car next to them that might cut them off. Basic rules of the road are forgotten because they're too worried about how far the bike is leaning over. That's not safe for the rider, or anyone around them.

Now, a week after getting my license I bought my F4i. For some people, the F4i probably isn't a great starter bike. But compared to newer 600s (both then and now), it's more forgiving. I don't see any reason someone couldn't start on it, or other early to mid 2000's 600cc bike.

I recommend 600cc bikes of that age range because they are relatively modern (compared to like a 94 Ninja which weighs a lot more), and are cheaper to buy, insure, maintain, and fix. I definitely agree with the sentiment that you probably will drop your bike as a new rider, even if it's forgetting the kick stand in the driveway. Doing that to your brand new bike will not only sting more, but cost more to fix if you're picky. Also, if you buy brand new off a dealer lot, it depreciates the second you leave. If you crash it in any way, it depreciates even more. The money factor is a big reason for my opinions, and I think most younger people interested in riding probably aren't going to have much money in the first place.

I also love the advancements in newer lower displacement bikes. The Ninja has been updated to look great, fuel injected, etc. They even have a 300cc version now, too. The CBR is great, too, including the 500. These bikes are great for new riders to learn on. I just don't know if they're the best purchase due to their newness, and thus increased cost of ownership. If you can buy a used 2010 or something, for example, you're still better off in that regard, and you might even be able to sell it for what you paid (they hold their value something fierce on the used market).

For 600cc bikes, new technologies aside, I still wouldn't recommend them. If only for the reason that they are new and expensive compared to the alternative.

But, it's inevitably up to the new rider to decide. None of us will change someone's mind if they're dead set on a 2012 600RR as their first bike. And maybe they'll be a good rider with no major incidents and no problems paying the costs. If so, good for them. If not, they'll learn a lesson and be a better person from it (hopefully, lol).

If you have a friend or loved one interested in motorcycles, definitely give them as much information as you can, so they can make a good decision and be safe and happy. If they buy a brand new bike, make sure to gear them up, and keep them in check.

 

nothing in this statement is a good argument against carbs...
if you dont like them thats your choice, could really care less. But saying that there is nothing good about them is absolutely absurd and ignorant.

 

This thread is a discussion about new riders on new vs old bikes. Let's try to not turn it into a carb vs. FI discussion.

But I need to ask then; What can a carburetor (or 4) do better than fuel injection?

Then let's get this discussion back on track......

 

yup, i'd still go with the ninja. they've been around longer, and for people that will learn how to wrench on their bikes themselves - a ninja 250 forum is going to have many more pictorials of everything to do with that bike vs a new cbr250r. and pictorials are essential for learning things you are not well versed at over the internet. it's going to have gurus that have been working on that specific bike for YEARS (even though its considered mostly as a "stepping stone" bike)


but you're correct - if you buy a brand spankin' new bike off the showroom floor - within 500 miles you'll be doing/ have done some maintenance if for nothing else but checking chain tension and lubing - which is a starting point.

and before anyone starts to wrench on a bike - they need to understand what they're doing. a guy's first time shouldn't be adjusting valves, it should be changing oil.

i guess it's not just for maintenance and things like that but also modifications. if you have a new bike, that's under warranty, youre way more likely to leave it be instead of modifying it. to put on the 2bros can or not to put on the 2bros can, that is the question. will that void my warranty? better not do that... wait, what kind of oil should i use?

vs...


a tall kid that wants a bit more height and style and decides to throw an f4 shock on his f3.... he wants more noise and better throttle response so he puts on that really un-restrictive pipe on his bike and then learns that now he needs to jet the bike. the guy at the shop wants $350??!! screw that, he'll learn to do it himself. he know there are pictures somewhere on cbrf to show him how...


plus, older bikes are usually a lot easier to work on.


i don't know. if someone was starting out to ride, i (like aken) would advise an older 600. but it'd be an f2 or f3 instead of an '03 600rr. i would never advise a new 600, but if the kid wants to ride sportbikes, he should at least learn on something that has that sort of "feel" (motor, suspension, and brakes wise) but won't be as likely to buck him off. tell me that the newbie that graduates from a 250 doesn't get shocked just as much as a brand new rider when he gets on a 600 for the first time by the power, feel, and weight.

not that i've ridden an ABS bike or a TC bike - but i really do think that if they start making them the norm on small little beginner bikes - those rider aids will make new riders dependent on them. so i would advise against them - always


all i'm saying is that i started on a 1995 F3. i think it was the best decision for me. while i'm smart enough to know it can kick my *** as soon as it decides to - it was a better decision that a 250 even though i'm a speed demon. ive ridden a 250, my wife and i owned a gs500, a xs650, ive ridden a sv650, i've rode a few 600rrs, i've ridden a 1000rr, i've owned 2 954's, and we also own an xb9r. plus i've ridden a lot other bikes (cruisers and other standards).

with everything that i've taken in - a person who wants to ride sportbikes in my humble opinion should start out on an older 600. a carbed 600. that's what worked for me. i always rode with responsibility. and that's important - but it's not just important for the guy starting on an older 600. it matters just as much on a 250. it can break speed limits too.... eventually... haha... but even an older 1000 would be a bad idea. it's not just about money, it's not just about power, it's not just about anything. it's about a combo of things and it also depends on the person and what he/she wants to do with their riding career.


but that's my take on it and that's what i would advise. its not the end-all-be-all of suggestions. hopefully a guy who is new to riding is going to read a thread like this and decide for himself taking everyone's suggestions in

 

Teach without handing you the answer.

 

When it comes down to it, I really think proper teaching of motorcycle riding techniques far outweighs the bike that the person is riding, by a long shot. If they know how to ride properly before getting on a bike, they will be better off no matter what two wheels they're on top of. I'll concede to you if you want a new bike because you're dead set on it (even if I don't agree with it), but I'll think you're a giant idiot if you do that before taking a class.

 

I'll definitely concede the point about available knowledgeable. Great example, I had a question about how to tell when ABS was activating on Yolie so I could find its limits. NOT Yolie's limits, specifically the abs system's cause I know Yolie has a bit more than the system does. I asked and someone said brake till the rear wheel lifts and abs put it back down. Problem was I was riding in a mode that deactivates rear wheel lift detection. Meaning so long as I didn't lock the front, she'd merrily go to balance point and beyond.

But while guys like IDoDirt were godsends when I was trying to figure out my F3, having them as a resource doesn't change the fact I was in over my head. I didn't know what she was supposed to ride like, never having experienced it. And be honest: you could have a fully operational set of carbs with 0 problems and when you see a pic of IDoDirt's carbs, you'd swear yours were on their last legs. I did try ultrasonic cleaning mine and they still never looked that good With a new bike, a person will be eased into maintenance, workin their way up from chain tension and oil changes, with the knowledge of how things are supposed to be because they actually experienced it.

On the subject of mods, I'll pass. I like my bikes stock. And I fully admit that if I want / need to go faster, I better start with me first. None of my bikes needed more power. They'd all benefit from a better rider more than modding it up any.

 

LOL...

(Unless that wasn't a joke. )


My stance on a new rider buying a new bike isn't going to change. I think it's a bad idea.

BUT... Kuro, I will say that in your particular situation with 250s.... it wouldn't matter quite as much.
I still don't think it's the best idea for a noob to buy a new bike (for reasons stated above), but when you're talking a new 250 that's less than half the price of a new 600.... it's certainly not as bad of an idea.
I mean... if she looked around at older 250s and couldn't find one for less than $2k, and she could get a new Honda 250 with much better options for like $3500... it may be something to consider.