F4 cam chain tensioner
#1
08-28-2006, 06:48 PM
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F4 cam chain tensioner
Off the record
there is a design fault on the CCT the new superceeded part has a blue dot on the CCT as opposed to a black dot. if any of you buy a CCT and they give you one with a Black dot on it refuse it, and insist on one with the blue dot.
the fitting is self explanatory really just dont remove the key in the end until the CCT is fitted to the engine, only then must it be removed and the bolt fitted.
over here in the UK we haven't really had that many problems with the later CCTs on the F4s.... more so with the earlier oil fed ones but a lot of that was down to users using too thick oil in their engines, anyone who has seen the inside of one of these CCTs will have seen the size of the oil hole in it and if the viscosity of the oil is too thick you can realise it's gonna struggle to get through such a small hole, even when the oil warms and thins down. Thats why engine manufactures give specifics for oil grades. you can use the thinner synthetic oils such as 5W40 but anything thicker than 10W40 will cause problems in the long run,
a lot of people have been know to try and get HONDA to repair these CCTs on the F4 at their cost but as to yet nothing has happened.
there is a design fault on the CCT the new superceeded part has a blue dot on the CCT as opposed to a black dot. if any of you buy a CCT and they give you one with a Black dot on it refuse it, and insist on one with the blue dot.
the fitting is self explanatory really just dont remove the key in the end until the CCT is fitted to the engine, only then must it be removed and the bolt fitted.
over here in the UK we haven't really had that many problems with the later CCTs on the F4s.... more so with the earlier oil fed ones but a lot of that was down to users using too thick oil in their engines, anyone who has seen the inside of one of these CCTs will have seen the size of the oil hole in it and if the viscosity of the oil is too thick you can realise it's gonna struggle to get through such a small hole, even when the oil warms and thins down. Thats why engine manufactures give specifics for oil grades. you can use the thinner synthetic oils such as 5W40 but anything thicker than 10W40 will cause problems in the long run,
a lot of people have been know to try and get HONDA to repair these CCTs on the F4 at their cost but as to yet nothing has happened.
#2
08-28-2006, 07:15 PM
RE: F4 cam chain tensioner
you guys have issues over there with the F4i's?
guys here have been having lots of issues with the cctls for the F4i's and claim that it's failing...when it's just making lots of noise.
i've personally have had success getting honda to swap it out with their dollar but it seems that even the newer blue dot one starts to make noise after a bit. since no engine has ever failed or jumped timing when the cctl noise comes up, a few guys started to wonder what the deal was...and concluded that it's not failing, it's just noisey...
from my dealings with it, and others whom i've discussed this with, is that there are 2 possible areas the noise is coming from, the play between the tip and the shaft, and then the area between the shaft and the cctl body.
i think when they went from the j22 to j23 part, they fixed the play between with shaft and body but not the shaft and pin. we've been flaring the pin and getting rid of the noise on many of the cctls...however, some claim it's still there...just not as bad...i don't know if they did it correctly or not...assuming they did, there's the play in the shaft and body, which just can't be fixed with DIY techniques...
any thoughts? APE would fix the noisiness, but when you get rattling from the APE, for sure it's the cam chain with no tension on it...and the likeliness of overtightening with the APE is just too great!
guys here have been having lots of issues with the cctls for the F4i's and claim that it's failing...when it's just making lots of noise.
i've personally have had success getting honda to swap it out with their dollar but it seems that even the newer blue dot one starts to make noise after a bit. since no engine has ever failed or jumped timing when the cctl noise comes up, a few guys started to wonder what the deal was...and concluded that it's not failing, it's just noisey...
from my dealings with it, and others whom i've discussed this with, is that there are 2 possible areas the noise is coming from, the play between the tip and the shaft, and then the area between the shaft and the cctl body.
i think when they went from the j22 to j23 part, they fixed the play between with shaft and body but not the shaft and pin. we've been flaring the pin and getting rid of the noise on many of the cctls...however, some claim it's still there...just not as bad...i don't know if they did it correctly or not...assuming they did, there's the play in the shaft and body, which just can't be fixed with DIY techniques...
any thoughts? APE would fix the noisiness, but when you get rattling from the APE, for sure it's the cam chain with no tension on it...and the likeliness of overtightening with the APE is just too great!
#3
08-29-2006, 08:03 AM
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RE: F4 cam chain tensioner
ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC
you guys have issues over there with the F4i's?
guys here have been having lots of issues with the cctls for the F4i's and claim that it's failing...when it's just making lots of noise.
i've personally have had success getting honda to swap it out with their dollar but it seems that even the newer blue dot one starts to make noise after a bit. since no engine has ever failed or jumped timing when the cctl noise comes up, a few guys started to wonder what the deal was...and concluded that it's not failing, it's just noisey...
from my dealings with it, and others whom i've discussed this with, is that there are 2 possible areas the noise is coming from, the play between the tip and the shaft, and then the area between the shaft and the cctl body.
i think when they went from the j22 to j23 part, they fixed the play between with shaft and body but not the shaft and pin. we've been flaring the pin and getting rid of the noise on many of the cctls...however, some claim it's still there...just not as bad...i don't know if they did it correctly or not...assuming they did, there's the play in the shaft and body, which just can't be fixed with DIY techniques...
any thoughts? APE would fix the noisiness, but when you get rattling from the APE, for sure it's the cam chain with no tension on it...and the likeliness of overtightening with the APE is just too great!
you guys have issues over there with the F4i's?
guys here have been having lots of issues with the cctls for the F4i's and claim that it's failing...when it's just making lots of noise.
i've personally have had success getting honda to swap it out with their dollar but it seems that even the newer blue dot one starts to make noise after a bit. since no engine has ever failed or jumped timing when the cctl noise comes up, a few guys started to wonder what the deal was...and concluded that it's not failing, it's just noisey...
from my dealings with it, and others whom i've discussed this with, is that there are 2 possible areas the noise is coming from, the play between the tip and the shaft, and then the area between the shaft and the cctl body.
i think when they went from the j22 to j23 part, they fixed the play between with shaft and body but not the shaft and pin. we've been flaring the pin and getting rid of the noise on many of the cctls...however, some claim it's still there...just not as bad...i don't know if they did it correctly or not...assuming they did, there's the play in the shaft and body, which just can't be fixed with DIY techniques...
any thoughts? APE would fix the noisiness, but when you get rattling from the APE, for sure it's the cam chain with no tension on it...and the likeliness of overtightening with the APE is just too great!
Seems like you have done your homework
the flaring on the pin does seem to work on most CCTs but others just seem to get worse. personally I think more pre load on the spring would do the job... just by removing the tensioner spring and putting a flat washer or shim behind the spring might do the job. but as of yet I haven't found a bike to try it on and I don't own a F4...The manual CCTs are very good if they don't come loose, as everyone dosent always loctite the nut, but as I have said in another post you have to be real careful not to overload the tension on the chain, if you take the cam cover off you can get a rough idea of how much tension you put on the chain, it has to be tight but not too tight, if you understand... from what I read on here is most people just take the CCT up until the rattle stops, & this gives me great concern because I feel thats too tight, This CCT saga has been going on for nearly 15 yrs now, Honda really should have sorted this by now,
#4
08-29-2006, 12:37 PM
RE: F4 cam chain tensioner
ohhh...you know...i was looking into valve adjustments on the F4i...which included installing the manual cctl...and for once the person swapping the cctl did do it right...since the cover was off, etc...he put on the manual cctl and then adjusted it so that the cam chain tension was in spec...honestly...it's the first time i've ever seen anyonen do that...even shops around here just do the noise thing and then back out, etc...
i'm going to take my cctl apart to see if a washer or spacer and be fitted in...some people are taking the time to add a couple of turns on the spring to give it more tension.
i'm going to take my cctl apart to see if a washer or spacer and be fitted in...some people are taking the time to add a couple of turns on the spring to give it more tension.
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