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Need help diagnosing starting problem.

Old Jul 5, 2023 | 02:53 PM
  #1  
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Default Need help diagnosing starting problem.

Friend just picked up an cbr f2 1992 took it apart has new stator owner says it was running a few weeks ago and all a sudden didn’t want to start anymore he replaced the stator thinking it was that. After further inspection the wiring harness is spliced into, rectifier plug is burnt/melted only had 2300 miles on it. After some online research seems like this bike has a problem with the rectifier. I had saw on this forum there is other rectifiers that work with this bike? A lot of older threads with outdated parts. I found this on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/155073191284?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=XxuzchbcQYm&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=xMgXFSebQ0 S&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY would this fix our problem? Worst case scenario could any other wire harness fit this bike?
 
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Old Jul 5, 2023 | 04:54 PM
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Greetings & Salutations!!!

That rectifier may work, but probably only temporarily. It doesn't solve issue of shunt-circuit rectifier driving stator at 100% fulltime. This will cause future burning/melted wiring-connector just like before. Because stator & rectifier has to pass 100% of stator's output, use just 10-20% to drive bike's electronics, and rest gets dumped to ground and generates tonne of heat!

You'll want to upgrade to new modern series-circuit rectifier that only drives stator just needed amount to power bike. This leaves stator, rectifier, wiring and connectors much, much cooler. There's write-up with supporting test data here: https://www.600rr.net/threads/stator...4/post-8041064
 

Last edited by dannoxyz; Jul 5, 2023 at 04:58 PM.
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Old Jul 5, 2023 | 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dannoxyz
Greetings & Salutations!!!

That rectifier may work, but probably only temporarily. It doesn't solve issue of shunt-circuit rectifier driving stator at 100% fulltime. This will cause future burning/melted wiring-connector just like before. Because stator & rectifier has to pass 100% of stator's output, use just 10-20% to drive bike's electronics, and rest gets dumped to ground and generates tonne of heat!

You'll want to upgrade to new modern series-circuit rectifier that only drives stator just needed amount to power bike. This leaves stator, rectifier, wiring and connectors much, much cooler. There's write-up with supporting test data here: https://www.600rr.net/threads/stator...4/post-8041064
So I edited this reply about 6 times lol, but I came down to 3 different options, I found the sticky’s about r/r problems read that entirely looked at all different types of units, and I came down to 3 mainly
back then before mosfets we’re around/popular people seemed to be putting in the 2003 gsxr 1000 r/r units haven’t seen any bad issues with those not sure how long they would last if that’s a good option but it’s the cheap option being $22 bucks on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/265344698687?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=8tjRy9AxRMi&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=xMgXFSebQ0 S&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

second option is an mosfet by ricks I’ve heard good things about this aswell and it’s plug and play easily mounted mosfet ready to go and fairly cheap.
https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/Hot-Shot-Series-Honda-Rectifier-Regulator-10_106H

third option is the sh487 which you recommended which seems as good as ricks and kinda the gsxr unit (I’m assuming the gsxr unit isn’t mosfet) but still should be good. but yet the unit ur talking about has two different plugs and seems like a hassle for around the same price as ricks.

4th option I did also see this which seems to be same quality or same thing as the non mosfet gsxr unit so why not go with the cheaper unit then buying this which is the same as the mosfet. https://www.electrosport.com/products/esr587-regulator-rectifier-honda-super-duty-5-pin

still deciding after all it’s not what I’m buying it’s my friends bike and I’m just helping him decide which he should get but knowing him he would want the cheapest unit so hoping the gsxr unit would fix our problem and not give us headaches down the road. But ricks and gsxr unit, either sound good to me?
 

Last edited by Crazyaust; Jul 5, 2023 at 08:05 PM.
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Old Jul 6, 2023 | 12:18 PM
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Best bet is used factory OEM GSX-R regulator since it's functional and cheap. Not that 3rd-party copy on eBay.

It still runs stator at 100% and overheats wiring and connectors. To alleviate that, snip off both connectors between stator & regulator and hard-wire them straight across using proper western-union/linesman knot, solder and adhesive heat-shrink tubing. Wiring is done this way in pro-motorsports (F1/MotoGP), military and aerospace applications for performance, reliability and durability. No need to pre-tin larger stranded wiring, makes it too difficult to tie knot.





People have tried replacing those connectors, but that doesn't fix high-current over-powering problem. Even new connectors end up frying within year or less.

 

Last edited by dannoxyz; Jul 6, 2023 at 12:29 PM.
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Old Jul 6, 2023 | 07:39 PM
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You actually need to do more testing, measuring and gathering data to see how to proceed. It very well could be that both stator and RR are perfectly fine and real problem is just burnt wiring and connectors between them.

At this point, you have no idea exactly what problem is and randomly replacing parts without having data and pinpointing actual cause of no-start and dead battery will have you waste lots of time and money replacing perfectly-working parts with brand-new perfectly-working parts and nothing changes.

Only thing you know for sure at this moment is,
the wiring harness is spliced into, rectifier plug is burnt/melted
1. repair wiring-harness splices, remove any non-stock wiring, replace any butt-crimped splices with proper western-union/linesman knot with solder and adhesive heat-shrink tubing.

2. replace burnt stator-to-RR connector with straight-through wire-splice

These 2 alone resolve all battery-charging issues on VFRs from that time-period. Stators and RR are typically fine, problem is low-specs Honda used on those connectors. Un-sealed connectors let moisture in. Uncoated connectors corrode over time and increases resistance. More resistance through connector causes heating when high-current goes through and leads to burning of connector.

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index....ot-is-too-hot/
https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index....comment=711382
https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index....upgrade-sh847/

Upgrading to superior RR is extremely easy with getting proper connectors: http://www.vintageconnections.com/Products/Detail/151

But again, stator & RR are most likely perfectly OK in this case. Replace burnt stator+RR connector with straight-through connection 1st. Then measure battery charging voltage at idle and 3000rpms.
 

Last edited by dannoxyz; Jul 6, 2023 at 08:19 PM.
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Old Jul 6, 2023 | 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dannoxyz
You actually need to do more testing, measuring and gathering data to see how to proceed. It very well could be that both stator and RR are perfectly fine and real problem is just burnt wiring and connectors between them.

At this point, you have no idea exactly what problem is and randomly replacing parts without having data and pinpointing actual cause of no-start and dead battery will have you waste lots of time and money replacing perfectly-working parts with brand-new perfectly-working parts and nothing changes.

Only thing you know for sure at this moment is,

1. repair wiring-harness splices, remove any non-stock wiring, replace any butt-crimped splices with proper western-union/linesman knot with solder and adhesive heat-shrink tubing.

2. replace burnt stator-to-RR connector with straight-through wire-splice

These 2 alone resolve all battery-charging issues on VFRs from that time-period. Stators and RR are typically fine, problem is low-specs Honda used on those connectors. Un-sealed connectors let moisture in. Uncoated connectors corrode over time and increases resistance. More resistance through connector causes heating when high-current goes through and leads to burning of connector.

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index....ot-is-too-hot/
https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index....comment=711382
https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index....upgrade-sh847/

Upgrading to superior RR is extremely easy with getting proper connectors: MOSFET Regulator / Rectifier Connector - Vintage Connections

But again, stator & RR are most likely perfectly OK in this case. Replace burnt stator+RR connector with straight-through connection 1st. Then measure battery charging voltage at idle and 3000rpms.
might as well replace the rr anyway. they all seem to go bad. Im almost positive the rr is bad bike was running a week ago then bought it off seller right before it just randomly stopped working and we stripped it and the rr plugs were burnt/melted to **** brand new stator as well cuz he thought it was that and tried to fix it before selling it so im sure both stator and rr went and he only replaced the stator. There’s so many options and different plugs,adapters,mosfets.
ur right I should just get the oem gsxr unit for cheap and see if that even fixes our problem
 
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Old Jul 7, 2023 | 01:32 AM
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RR is easy. But it won't work at all if you can't get power from stator to RR in 1st place.
 
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