HELP 954 stalls when I floor it
#11
08-17-2012, 02:40 PM
the feeler is a .012 COMFORTABLY inbetween the piston and cyl wall. the service limit is .002- so i was WAY out of spec and i know that sticking a feeler isn't the most accurate and correct way to measure PTW gap, but i was just curious to see how bad it was - i knew it was enough to have to get it re-done. plus the scores were really deep. i could get almost my whole finger nail stuck in them.
that was out of a motor i bought from someone who thought it just needed a valve adjusted btw! (but for a cool $300, i took the gamble.) the valves were perfectly in spec
look at how chewed up the pistons were
so i decided to bore and plate - and run hi comp pistons.... motor is going to be cam'd and i'm putting bigger TBs on there too. we'll see how it turns out
srry but i made another 1 u can hear REALLY GOOD! i wanted u to hear it rev b4 so i had to stand next to and thought u could hear it better closer to error. but check this video out and hit me with the bad news
i will get a scope, i used to use wood lol and ill have more questions about the orange 929 motors locked up. thanx alot evryone, i worked in shops for years and that why i dont trust them and dont want someone elses hands on girl
or i would just take it somewer and say here rip me off and scratch it up and say it was like that. so thanx alot everyone!
i will get a scope, i used to use wood lol and ill have more questions about the orange 929 motors locked up. thanx alot evryone, i worked in shops for years and that why i dont trust them and dont want someone elses hands on girl or i would just take it somewer and say here rip me off and scratch it up and say it was like that. so thanx alot everyone!but i'm not there, and unless i could literally show you where that noise was with a stethoscope and compare and contrast with other spots around the block in person - i can't 100% diagnose anything - especially from youtube.
all i can tell you is what i experienced. if you rev around 3k and 5k - it should sound a lot better. if you think about what that piston is doing when it pivots back and forth, that noise is going to be the most prominent at an idle, pretty bad at high revs, and it'll sound the best around the low-mid rpms. but it will still be there
eventually, you'll lose compression in a cyl because the rings will fail. as all the stealerships say "it runs fine now, but eventually, it'll leave you stranded". you can try to run some thicker oil to see if that helps, but then you probably shouldn't run up the tach.
get that stethoscope on it, and see if you can pinpoint it. keep us updated
Last edited by Conrice; 08-17-2012 at 02:43 PM.
#12
08-22-2012, 08:48 PM
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thanx a ton, the seasons over pretty much and i havent went riding due to this error. so i guess its back to tearing it down, i couldnt explain it befor but you hit the nail on the head when you said sounds bad at low rpm, fine at mid then bad again at high. when i jjus go for a couple mile ride it feels like its losing compression. please dont tell me i should expect my bores and pistons to look like the 1 you have in the photo? good side it'll be a good learning experience, i have a motor that has a MEAN crack in the bottom case, would it be easier to change case or jus rebuild motor? srry i took so long to reply, i was speechless and took the family camping that same day jus got back.
#13
08-23-2012, 11:02 AM
well, who knows how bad it's going to look. but that's the kind of damage that it's starting to cause if its piston slap. now the guy that i bought that particular motor from had rode it a long time like that, so who knows just how bad it was in the beginning and how much more damage he did by riding it like that.
i mean, by all means, ride the bike like that, you're not going to cause it to seize up or anything, but like i said, it's a time bomb. who knows when it's going to give, but it IS going to give is more of the point. at first it's going to be a bad misfire and oil in the air box. (i know from the first motor that did this to me). my father in law was riding it, it had that piston slap, but i didn't really know what was wrong with it (he is a mechanic too) anyways, he had about a 7 mile commute to and from work. one day on the way home, he lost a lot of power and it was missing on one of the cylinders. we broke it down, id say a half pint of oil in the airbox - and long story short, the piston rings gave up. and it looked similar to those pictures.
i have a bottom case.... if you wanted to go that route... tell me more about this other motor, any pictures?
i mean, by all means, ride the bike like that, you're not going to cause it to seize up or anything, but like i said, it's a time bomb. who knows when it's going to give, but it IS going to give is more of the point. at first it's going to be a bad misfire and oil in the air box. (i know from the first motor that did this to me). my father in law was riding it, it had that piston slap, but i didn't really know what was wrong with it (he is a mechanic too) anyways, he had about a 7 mile commute to and from work. one day on the way home, he lost a lot of power and it was missing on one of the cylinders. we broke it down, id say a half pint of oil in the airbox - and long story short, the piston rings gave up. and it looked similar to those pictures.
i have a bottom case.... if you wanted to go that route... tell me more about this other motor, any pictures?
#14
08-23-2012, 02:59 PM
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well, who knows how bad it's going to look. but that's the kind of damage that it's starting to cause if its piston slap. now the guy that i bought that particular motor from had rode it a long time like that, so who knows just how bad it was in the beginning and how much more damage he did by riding it like that.
i mean, by all means, ride the bike like that, you're not going to cause it to seize up or anything, but like i said, it's a time bomb. who knows when it's going to give, but it IS going to give is more of the point. at first it's going to be a bad misfire and oil in the air box. (i know from the first motor that did this to me). my father in law was riding it, it had that piston slap, but i didn't really know what was wrong with it (he is a mechanic too) anyways, he had about a 7 mile commute to and from work. one day on the way home, he lost a lot of power and it was missing on one of the cylinders. we broke it down, id say a half pint of oil in the airbox - and long story short, the piston rings gave up. and it looked similar to those pictures.
i have a bottom case.... if you wanted to go that route... tell me more about this other motor, any pictures?
i mean, by all means, ride the bike like that, you're not going to cause it to seize up or anything, but like i said, it's a time bomb. who knows when it's going to give, but it IS going to give is more of the point. at first it's going to be a bad misfire and oil in the air box. (i know from the first motor that did this to me). my father in law was riding it, it had that piston slap, but i didn't really know what was wrong with it (he is a mechanic too) anyways, he had about a 7 mile commute to and from work. one day on the way home, he lost a lot of power and it was missing on one of the cylinders. we broke it down, id say a half pint of oil in the airbox - and long story short, the piston rings gave up. and it looked similar to those pictures.
i have a bottom case.... if you wanted to go that route... tell me more about this other motor, any pictures?
motor ran GREAT! long story short i bought the bike with a crash cage, and it hit the road befor i had a chance to take it off almost killed me and my bike but wer both back
CBR Forum - Enthusiast forums for Honda CBR Owners - J0HNDiLLiNGER's Album: My titanium black 954 & CRASH
bought a parts bike for $1200 slvaged title no fairings, had motor swingarm subframe i wanted so here we are now
#15
08-23-2012, 05:03 PM
holy ****!, that's a real x-ray of your foot?! damn man, that was a nasty one for sure. glad you made it! hope you healed up fast and easy.
anyways, is that how the motor sits right now? or have you taken the bottom case and stator cover off? (if the actual stator is screwed, i have one of those too - with no connector on it, so you'd have to splice your connector to the wires)
like i said, you could use another lower case if you want to. the easiest way to do it would be to take the top case bolts off of the back end where the tranny is, flip the motor upside down, take the covers off, take the clutch out, get oil pump gear off, take the 3 bolts that hold the cases together off there take lower case motor bolts off and you should be able to gently work the shift forks out of the gears.
then take a magnet and make sure you don't have any shards or debris in the cylinders.
you'd then have to match up the crank and lower case letters to figure out which bearings you'd need. after that it should pretty much go right back together like it came apart. you wouldn't have to take apart the cyl head, mess with valve timing or anything. having a physical manual is a lot easier than a computer.
that'd probably be cheaper than salvaging the motor you have now. it's just what you feel comfortable with doing man. like i said, you could ride that motor now, just be easy on it and know that it will eventually go.
you're not going to hurt anything by taking the lower case off and having a look-see. i mean, from here, it's what you want to do. but nothing short of tearing that motor completely down is going to fix that piston slap... unfortunately....
anyways, is that how the motor sits right now? or have you taken the bottom case and stator cover off? (if the actual stator is screwed, i have one of those too - with no connector on it, so you'd have to splice your connector to the wires)
like i said, you could use another lower case if you want to. the easiest way to do it would be to take the top case bolts off of the back end where the tranny is, flip the motor upside down, take the covers off, take the clutch out, get oil pump gear off, take the 3 bolts that hold the cases together off there take lower case motor bolts off and you should be able to gently work the shift forks out of the gears.
then take a magnet and make sure you don't have any shards or debris in the cylinders.
you'd then have to match up the crank and lower case letters to figure out which bearings you'd need. after that it should pretty much go right back together like it came apart. you wouldn't have to take apart the cyl head, mess with valve timing or anything. having a physical manual is a lot easier than a computer.
that'd probably be cheaper than salvaging the motor you have now. it's just what you feel comfortable with doing man. like i said, you could ride that motor now, just be easy on it and know that it will eventually go.
you're not going to hurt anything by taking the lower case off and having a look-see. i mean, from here, it's what you want to do. but nothing short of tearing that motor completely down is going to fix that piston slap... unfortunately....
#16
08-23-2012, 05:54 PM
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holy ****!, that's a real x-ray of your foot?! damn man, that was a nasty one for sure. glad you made it! hope you healed up fast and easy.
anyways, is that how the motor sits right now? or have you taken the bottom case and stator cover off? (if the actual stator is screwed, i have one of those too - with no connector on it, so you'd have to splice your connector to the wires)
like i said, you could use another lower case if you want to. the easiest way to do it would be to take the top case bolts off of the back end where the tranny is, flip the motor upside down, take the covers off, take the clutch out, get oil pump gear off, take the 3 bolts that hold the cases together off there take lower case motor bolts off and you should be able to gently work the shift forks out of the gears.
then take a magnet and make sure you don't have any shards or debris in the cylinders.
you'd then have to match up the crank and lower case letters to figure out which bearings you'd need. after that it should pretty much go right back together like it came apart. you wouldn't have to take apart the cyl head, mess with valve timing or anything. having a physical manual is a lot easier than a computer.
that'd probably be cheaper than salvaging the motor you have now. it's just what you feel comfortable with doing man. like i said, you could ride that motor now, just be easy on it and know that it will eventually go.
you're not going to hurt anything by taking the lower case off and having a look-see. i mean, from here, it's what you want to do. but nothing short of tearing that motor completely down is going to fix that piston slap... unfortunately....
anyways, is that how the motor sits right now? or have you taken the bottom case and stator cover off? (if the actual stator is screwed, i have one of those too - with no connector on it, so you'd have to splice your connector to the wires)
like i said, you could use another lower case if you want to. the easiest way to do it would be to take the top case bolts off of the back end where the tranny is, flip the motor upside down, take the covers off, take the clutch out, get oil pump gear off, take the 3 bolts that hold the cases together off there take lower case motor bolts off and you should be able to gently work the shift forks out of the gears.
then take a magnet and make sure you don't have any shards or debris in the cylinders.
you'd then have to match up the crank and lower case letters to figure out which bearings you'd need. after that it should pretty much go right back together like it came apart. you wouldn't have to take apart the cyl head, mess with valve timing or anything. having a physical manual is a lot easier than a computer.
that'd probably be cheaper than salvaging the motor you have now. it's just what you feel comfortable with doing man. like i said, you could ride that motor now, just be easy on it and know that it will eventually go.
you're not going to hurt anything by taking the lower case off and having a look-see. i mean, from here, it's what you want to do. but nothing short of tearing that motor completely down is going to fix that piston slap... unfortunately....
so i think im going to tear down the original motor first, well change case. when thats done ill rip apart the one with piston slap to see whats going on in there! ive never been inside one of these motors so ive been trying to avoid it but its usualy the things i sweat end up being easier then the things i expect to be easy. again, thanx alot bro and send me a pm of what you want for those parts
#17
08-23-2012, 07:05 PM
yea i got lucky, the foot wasnt the worst. i broke my sternum in my chest and my back witch f'd up my lungs, the impact broke my back and sternum at the same time and my lungs shouldve exploded but they held on jus f'd up, foot just took the longest to heal
so i think im going to tear down the original motor first, well change case. when thats done ill rip apart the one with piston slap to see whats going on in there! ive never been inside one of these motors so ive been trying to avoid it but its usualy the things i sweat end up being easier then the things i expect to be easy. again, thanx alot bro and send me a pm of what you want for those parts
so i think im going to tear down the original motor first, well change case. when thats done ill rip apart the one with piston slap to see whats going on in there! ive never been inside one of these motors so ive been trying to avoid it but its usualy the things i sweat end up being easier then the things i expect to be easy. again, thanx alot bro and send me a pm of what you want for those parts
if you don't care about being able to ride the bike around at all, you could just switch the bottom case off the other motor... if you didn't feel like buyin my lower. i don't know why i didn't think of that or mention that too?... let me get everything together, and i'll shoot you a pm and you can decide.
Last edited by Conrice; 08-23-2012 at 07:10 PM.
#18
08-23-2012, 08:20 PM
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damn! can't believe that about your sternum. so glad you're okay man, and i'm really amped that you're not giving up on riding. i'll send you a pm, in a day or two, let me figure it all out.
if you don't care about being able to ride the bike around at all, you could just switch the bottom case off the other motor... if you didn't feel like buyin my lower. i don't know why i didn't think of that or mention that too?... let me get everything together, and i'll shoot you a pm and you can decide.
if you don't care about being able to ride the bike around at all, you could just switch the bottom case off the other motor... if you didn't feel like buyin my lower. i don't know why i didn't think of that or mention that too?... let me get everything together, and i'll shoot you a pm and you can decide.
lol im going to tear down this broken case first and then ill decide on using this other motor for parts but id really like to fix them both eventually so why take the parts off so im undecided right now but let me know. i dont like to give my spare parts up also lol
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