Cbr f2 runs terribly
#11
There's the bungs in place I got the wideband in today so I'm going to start the tune once I finish welding in the bung for #2 it's just tacked right now I'll finish that today I'm going to see what each one is currently at record that then correct just so I have a record of it, I'll post the numbers when I get them
P.s. this is my first time putting up pictures up on a forum so bare with me please
#12
What did I do wrong????????
I have the wide band wired to its own relay and toggle switch as is shows in the instructions.
I fired up cyl 1 I'm at 22.4 solid same for cyl 4 but I can sometimes get a spike to 19.something it goes away too fast only on cyl 4 though
Cyl 3 is at like 18:1 average I didn't even bother yet with cyl 2, I'll check that next and try to recalibrate the o2 when I install it
After the merge it's a solid 22.4:1 aka maxed out reading it's like 23:1-24:1 on logworks
No matter how far out I turn the pilots I don't get any change in a/f for anything but a slight reaction with cyl 3 but not much, Im idling about 1800 so I should be mainly using pilot jet right?
How can I be running so lean?? How are no changes to the pilots working?? I feel like I understand what I need to do but it's just not working for me I must be missing something simple. I'm taking the reading from individual cylinders so how can they all independently be like that? Am I truly running that lean with no way to enrichen the mixture, even with pilots all the way out?
I recalibrate the sensor everytime I change its spot and it's brandnew, I hate to think I unknowingly did something to ruin the sensor that fast I followed the manual step for step..
I don't have the air filter on right now I was thinking I should give a raw carb sync and tune since it's easier to work on and around the carbs with everything stripped off, then reinstall the air box do the final carb sync then pilot tune. Is this the wrong order? am I just letting in that much air that it's leaning out like crazy? I guess I'll try to put the air filter on and see how that goes, I really hope that's it.
Edit: just went out put everything together I still get 22.4 on cyl 4, I'm so tired of this f2 I'm on edge of saying f it and selling. Now it sounds as if there's a rattling or tick but it's crazy lean and still running getting better on idle after I reset the pilots all back to 2.5 turns each. I'm half thinking of pulling the pan but then I have to do a oil change and now it's like I'm just throwing money at it.
What should I do about the a/f I don't know why I can't get a more realistic reading or make any changes I'm stumped
I have the wide band wired to its own relay and toggle switch as is shows in the instructions.
I fired up cyl 1 I'm at 22.4 solid same for cyl 4 but I can sometimes get a spike to 19.something it goes away too fast only on cyl 4 though
Cyl 3 is at like 18:1 average I didn't even bother yet with cyl 2, I'll check that next and try to recalibrate the o2 when I install it
After the merge it's a solid 22.4:1 aka maxed out reading it's like 23:1-24:1 on logworks
No matter how far out I turn the pilots I don't get any change in a/f for anything but a slight reaction with cyl 3 but not much, Im idling about 1800 so I should be mainly using pilot jet right?
How can I be running so lean?? How are no changes to the pilots working?? I feel like I understand what I need to do but it's just not working for me I must be missing something simple. I'm taking the reading from individual cylinders so how can they all independently be like that? Am I truly running that lean with no way to enrichen the mixture, even with pilots all the way out?
I recalibrate the sensor everytime I change its spot and it's brandnew, I hate to think I unknowingly did something to ruin the sensor that fast I followed the manual step for step..
I don't have the air filter on right now I was thinking I should give a raw carb sync and tune since it's easier to work on and around the carbs with everything stripped off, then reinstall the air box do the final carb sync then pilot tune. Is this the wrong order? am I just letting in that much air that it's leaning out like crazy? I guess I'll try to put the air filter on and see how that goes, I really hope that's it.
Edit: just went out put everything together I still get 22.4 on cyl 4, I'm so tired of this f2 I'm on edge of saying f it and selling. Now it sounds as if there's a rattling or tick but it's crazy lean and still running getting better on idle after I reset the pilots all back to 2.5 turns each. I'm half thinking of pulling the pan but then I have to do a oil change and now it's like I'm just throwing money at it.
What should I do about the a/f I don't know why I can't get a more realistic reading or make any changes I'm stumped
Last edited by tampa_git; 04-21-2016 at 05:05 PM.
#15
The needles are stock, i know that affects higher rpm and slightly affect idle but I've had it running for years on stock jetting shouldn't I be able to get the a/f in the right area at idle without reshimming or jetting? Maybe I'm wrong on that but the fact I had it running for years makes me think it can be done
Last edited by tampa_git; 04-22-2016 at 08:28 AM.
#16
Well.... this morning I went out and tried to start it, u heard a tick like it stopped the starter immediatly, I thought possibly it was just the relay it's done that in the past
It now won't run well at all a noticeable noise in the motor so who knows what's coming next I'll drain the pan looking for metal and see what happens I don't know if I'm willing to rebuild this motor.
I've rebuilt motors before but I don't know if it's worth it if anything I would swap motors, maybe there's a valve problem and I can just swap heads
Ironic part is that my wideband started working hahaha it was 10:1 right at start with choke, leaned out as the choke came off but I couldn't get it to idle without choke I just ran it for like 20 seconds bc of the noise. That was on cyl 4
I'm praying it's just a loose cct and I can tighten it but u really don't think that's what it is.
Edit: there was a loose plug on the o2 bung for cyl 2 the only one I haven't tried so I put the o2 sensor on cyl 2 95% of my noise went away. But on cyl 2 I have a a/f of 22.4:1 at idle but when I rev it drops to 16:1 so I think the sensors working but why would I be so lean on idle then?
Cyl 3 is at like 17:1-19:1 but will sometimes spike up to 22.4:1 and hesitate. That could be from another cyl not running right and bogging out not really sure
Is it possible to have blocked pilot jets and still idle I feel like it runs too good for it to have clogged pilots but when I change a pilot screw the a/f doesn't move at all?
It now won't run well at all a noticeable noise in the motor so who knows what's coming next I'll drain the pan looking for metal and see what happens I don't know if I'm willing to rebuild this motor.
I've rebuilt motors before but I don't know if it's worth it if anything I would swap motors, maybe there's a valve problem and I can just swap heads
Ironic part is that my wideband started working hahaha it was 10:1 right at start with choke, leaned out as the choke came off but I couldn't get it to idle without choke I just ran it for like 20 seconds bc of the noise. That was on cyl 4
I'm praying it's just a loose cct and I can tighten it but u really don't think that's what it is.
Edit: there was a loose plug on the o2 bung for cyl 2 the only one I haven't tried so I put the o2 sensor on cyl 2 95% of my noise went away. But on cyl 2 I have a a/f of 22.4:1 at idle but when I rev it drops to 16:1 so I think the sensors working but why would I be so lean on idle then?
Cyl 3 is at like 17:1-19:1 but will sometimes spike up to 22.4:1 and hesitate. That could be from another cyl not running right and bogging out not really sure
Is it possible to have blocked pilot jets and still idle I feel like it runs too good for it to have clogged pilots but when I change a pilot screw the a/f doesn't move at all?
Last edited by tampa_git; 04-22-2016 at 09:48 AM.
#17
Recalibrated the sensor twice and wrapped the header in foil at the seal after checking torque hoping it was an exhaust leak leading to the lean condition but I'm still at 22.4:1 at idle at cyl 1with 4 turns out, how many more can I go before it's unscrewed haha I feel like I'm giving it all the gas I can but it's still crazy lean
With a quick rev after warming up it spikes to 16:1 or 17:1
With a quick rev after warming up it spikes to 16:1 or 17:1
#18
Just my thoughts, but everything you said so far tell me your carbs are still plugged. Especially when it won't run without the choke.
I've rebuild a few sets of F2 carbs. I've never had set the idle mixture screws more than 2.5 turns out. If you do, it would also indicate a plugged jet. Also pull the idle screws all the way out and make sure the orings on them are good.
If it were me, I'd try cleaning them again. Spray out all the passages and jets both direction. Cut a piece off and uses a couple of the fine wire strands and carefully run them through the jets and air bleeds. Be sure to blow everything out with compressed air.
As for the noise, it's most likely the CCT or clutch basket. Motors can also make funny noise when the carbs are f'd up. They don't run smooth and can rattle more than normal.
I've rebuild a few sets of F2 carbs. I've never had set the idle mixture screws more than 2.5 turns out. If you do, it would also indicate a plugged jet. Also pull the idle screws all the way out and make sure the orings on them are good.
If it were me, I'd try cleaning them again. Spray out all the passages and jets both direction. Cut a piece off and uses a couple of the fine wire strands and carefully run them through the jets and air bleeds. Be sure to blow everything out with compressed air.
As for the noise, it's most likely the CCT or clutch basket. Motors can also make funny noise when the carbs are f'd up. They don't run smooth and can rattle more than normal.
Last edited by Phil314; 04-22-2016 at 01:00 PM.
#19
Just my thoughts, but everything you said so far tell me your carbs are still plugged. Especially when it won't run without the choke.
I've rebuild a few sets of F2 carbs. I've never had set the idle mixture screws more than 2.5 turns out. If you do, it would also indicate a plugged jet. Also pull the idle screws all the way out and make sure the orings on them are good.
If it were me, I'd try cleaning them again. Spray out all the passages and jets both direction. Cut a piece off and uses a couple of the fine wire strands and carefully run them through the jets and air bleeds. Be sure to blow everything out with compressed air.
As for the noise, it's most likely the CCT or clutch basket. Motors can also make funny noise when the carbs are f'd up. They don't run smooth and can rattle more than normal.
I've rebuild a few sets of F2 carbs. I've never had set the idle mixture screws more than 2.5 turns out. If you do, it would also indicate a plugged jet. Also pull the idle screws all the way out and make sure the orings on them are good.
If it were me, I'd try cleaning them again. Spray out all the passages and jets both direction. Cut a piece off and uses a couple of the fine wire strands and carefully run them through the jets and air bleeds. Be sure to blow everything out with compressed air.
As for the noise, it's most likely the CCT or clutch basket. Motors can also make funny noise when the carbs are f'd up. They don't run smooth and can rattle more than normal.
And I don't have any orings on my idles screws?? I just have the screw which had the d shaped top and needle like bottom and that has a spring around it both are screwed into the carb body? I'll look at a parts diagram to see if I'm missing any orings
Yeah i think my clutch basket rattles, I recently replaced the clutch plates and measured the springs both are good now, everything else looked good the basket had a little wear but that's it. I have the clutch pulled in and taped down so the clutch is disengaged and theres no noises from the clutch. The other noises have calmed down a little the better the tune gets as expected
My biggest problem is I feel like I have no control of fuel at idle. 22.4:1 seems crazy
When I did my last cleaning I used wire, cleaner, and compressed air I'm 100% confident all jets in the bowl and all passages are clean.
Should I remove the idle screws with the carbs on the bike and poke some wire in there to see if there's any blocks? Would it make a difference being such a small spot to poke?
As far as it being 4 turns out this is the first time I've ever had it running with 4 turns out before I put the o2 bungs I just did 2 3/4 turns across all 4 it ran ok at best but it never idled how it should, now I have them 4 out to try to enriched the mixture now that I see how lean it is
#20
I have it running without choke on at this point, and yeah you might be right I might just need to give it another cleaning. If I do i think I'll shim the needles with 1 shim still won't rejet.
And I don't have any orings on my idles screws?? I just have the screw which had the d shaped top and needle like bottom and that has a spring around it both are screwed into the carb body? I'll look at a parts diagram to see if I'm missing any orings
Yeah i think my clutch basket rattles, I recently replaced the clutch plates and measured the springs both are good now, everything else looked good the basket had a little wear but that's it. I have the clutch pulled in and taped down so the clutch is disengaged and theres no noises from the clutch. The other noises have calmed down a little the better the tune gets as expected
My biggest problem is I feel like I have no control of fuel at idle. 22.4:1 seems crazy
When I did my last cleaning I used wire, cleaner, and compressed air I'm 100% confident all jets in the bowl and all passages are clean.
Should I remove the idle screws with the carbs on the bike and poke some wire in there to see if there's any blocks? Would it make a difference being such a small spot to poke?
As far as it being 4 turns out this is the first time I've ever had it running with 4 turns out before I put the o2 bungs I just did 2 3/4 turns across all 4 it ran ok at best but it never idled how it should, now I have them 4 out to try to enriched the mixture now that I see how lean it is
And I don't have any orings on my idles screws?? I just have the screw which had the d shaped top and needle like bottom and that has a spring around it both are screwed into the carb body? I'll look at a parts diagram to see if I'm missing any orings
Yeah i think my clutch basket rattles, I recently replaced the clutch plates and measured the springs both are good now, everything else looked good the basket had a little wear but that's it. I have the clutch pulled in and taped down so the clutch is disengaged and theres no noises from the clutch. The other noises have calmed down a little the better the tune gets as expected
My biggest problem is I feel like I have no control of fuel at idle. 22.4:1 seems crazy
When I did my last cleaning I used wire, cleaner, and compressed air I'm 100% confident all jets in the bowl and all passages are clean.
Should I remove the idle screws with the carbs on the bike and poke some wire in there to see if there's any blocks? Would it make a difference being such a small spot to poke?
As far as it being 4 turns out this is the first time I've ever had it running with 4 turns out before I put the o2 bungs I just did 2 3/4 turns across all 4 it ran ok at best but it never idled how it should, now I have them 4 out to try to enriched the mixture now that I see how lean it is
They control your fuel at idle. If turning them has no effect, then you've got a air leak or somethings plugged. If I turn mine a 1/2 turn in either direction, there is a noticeable change in idle.