CBR 600F2 1991 - 1994 CBR 600F2

94 f2 compression issues

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Aug 31, 2021 | 05:25 PM
  #11  
Phil314's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 674
Likes: 53
From: 45.2521, -93.5612
Default

Those compression numbers look fine. More than good enough that the engine should run.
Sounds like the carbs are clean enough, that the bike should run.
If you haven't checked the valves, now would be a good time to do it.
Good chance you'll only need to check the valve, F2's in general hold the clearances well and only need adjust at high miles (like mine).
The no start may be cause by some sort of electrical issue.
Each coil fire 2 cylinders, so if a coil isn't hooked up and firing, that can cause a no start.
Spark plug wires, if original are way past their prime. But that usually doesn't cause a no start.
Timing pickup going bad, or moving, or loose timing gear/disc thingy too. Worth pulling the cover and checking.

Also be careful with the starting fluid. If the bike won't start on gas, you need to find the problem and fix it.
Using starting fluid won't fix any problems, only create more.
And using starting fluid on a bike with timing problems can be very bad.
It's just too explosive. One backfire can destroying things like airboxes, gas tank petcocks, eyebrows, etc.
 
Reply
Old Aug 31, 2021 | 06:06 PM
  #12  
tampa_git's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Default

yeah i might have to pull the valve cover off and check the valves but i did a valve adjustment not too many miles ago so i dont think that will be the issue and it was running great right before there was a no start which came quick and out of the blue

i can confirm that when i ground a plug each cyl is getting spark but it seems weak, im in the process of going through the ignition system ill post what i get. all the plugs are in good condition and not fouled.
quick question on that, should my primary coils give a consistent reading or fluctuate? when i ran the last primary coil test it would go up and down mostly staying outside of the recommended range on both of the coils. i just want to confirm the coils are bad before i buy new ones since they can be pricey, but if i have to buy new ones i will considering it doesnt seem like the compression is a problem and i could get some more good miles out of the bike

yeah im not going heavy on the starting fluid i just use it to confirm if its a fuel issue or something else, theoretically if spark timing compression are all there and fuel is the issue using a little starting fluid sprayed right to the valves should at least make it want to start if not quickly start than die, unfortunately that did not happen to me even after cleaning the carbs and fresh fuel which makes me think its not a fuel problem.

edit:
the craftsman multimeter gives a stable reading for the coils, i had a new one on the shelf i tried it out and get no spark because of the plug wires not connecting right so thats the hurdle now figuring out how to make the plug wires get a good connection. sounds easy but has proven to be an issue
 

Last edited by tampa_git; Sep 1, 2021 at 09:00 AM.
Reply
Old Sep 1, 2021 | 12:23 PM
  #13  
Phil314's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 674
Likes: 53
From: 45.2521, -93.5612
Default

I haven't done much with coils. In all my F2 years, I don't think I've ever seen one go bad.
I'd have to look up the specs for coils resistance, don't know that off the top of my head.
To check them, make sure they are fully disconnected from everything, then measure resistance, it should be constant.
Unless they are 0 or infinity, I would not be convinced they are bad.
Eyeballing spark is hard to tell sometimes. Depends on how bright or dark the work area is.

My thoughts are this at this point. If it was just 1 or 2 cylinders, then maybe coils, wires, etc.
But you aren't even getting a sputter or pop.
I'd be more inclined to look at something like timing pick - something that would effect all cylinders/plugs and stop all spark.

 
Reply
Old Sep 1, 2021 | 03:40 PM
  #14  
tampa_git's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Default

fair enough and i was able to get spark before which as you said i would think that would be good enough to start, of course i replaced one coil with a good one i had on the shelf now i get no spark to those 2 plugs since i cant quite seem to get the plug wires on right to get continuity.

even when i take the wire off set the multi meter to continuity put one lead in where it connects to the coil and the other where the plug goes i dont get any continuity and im unable to register any resistance. either im not making contact on the coil side of the wire or the wire is old worn and not in good shape. its a head scratcher

on a side note i have replaced the coils once in the past years ago when i did a full rebuild of the bike but i think they were a used set. i might go down that road and get another set from ebay that came from a running bike with the plug wires still connected but i dont want to throw money at it when its not needed. i would really love it if honda had made the plug wires in away that the wires them selves could be replaced and keep the caps like countless cars out there, seems like a bad design choice from honda but i guess hind sight is 20/20

the current coils show anywhere from 3.1-3.4 and a few times 3.0 ohms on the primary resistance so they should/did/do spark even if its a little weak, i would be happier buying a better ignition system with a hotter spark but i cant find any options for that and again dont want to throw money at a non existant issue if their not the problem.

ill take a look at the pick up but id hate to waste the oil since its actually fresh oil with almost no miles on it and im running a hrc cover so no port hole to look through, plus unless the gear itsself shifted it does have spark on the coil i left alone and had it on the other so its on the shaft all the way so i guess only thing i could look for there is if he outer wheel has shifted but hat seems somewhat unlikely, but that being said im starting to run out of things to check so why not

EDIT:
i have 4 coils all around 3.1-3.3 ohms on the primary coil the one that im having super weak spark on a test plug is the 1/4 coil ill go ahead and test the secondary coil on it since i got a tiny bit of spark from it so seem like the connections have been made, turns out when i was testing the wires i didnt set the resistance high enough but i am getting good results from the wires so i dont think their the issue (i even have a few extra). im going to test the secondary on it post the result then i might just go ahead and test the rest of the ignition system according to manual specs and post that i might also test the aftermarket r/r on it just to confirm its good ive heard some question if that can affect spark

secondary coil on the 1/4 coil is 24.6 which is within spec between that and the primary coil i should be getting enough spark to run

to clarify it sounds like its on the edge of starting and it just wont even with starting fluid i feel like im close im going to check the fh020aa rectifier real quick but im not really anticipating a issue with that and since it sits on a tender over night and before trying to start it i dont think a rectifier would be an issue since the battery should be fully charged, the battery isnt super old but i guess technically a low battery could cause a weak spark but since its enough to turn over multiple times i dont think that an issue especially when it sits on a tender until a test

FH020AA test results following
results :
497 495 478
0 0 0
0 0 0
100 100 100

rectifier is in good condition no issues there, ill follow the rest of the ignition test from the manual and test the 2/3 coil next

2/3 coil has a secondary coil resistance of 24.6 so within spec

pulse generator is 492 ohms so within spec
 

Last edited by tampa_git; Sep 1, 2021 at 06:07 PM.
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2021 | 11:45 AM
  #15  
tampa_git's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Default

welp just took off the timing cover (huge pita, bike is lowered extended and has smokin joe track fairings so one piece lowers, i have to lift the front end off the ground a good foot to get the lower off)

but he pick up gear looks good so does the timing chain the bike has a RPM adjustable pickup thats set up to the stock position so no crazy advance or retard on the ignition already tested the actual pick up and its within spec so i dont think theres a mechanical pick up issue

so things left to check would be valves and icm?
 
Reply
Old Sep 6, 2021 | 02:39 PM
  #16  
tampa_git's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Default

just ran the icm tests, results:

1- ok, batery voltage registers
2- 494 ohms within spec
3-3.3 ohms, same as coils range is supposed to be 2.5-3.1 but its very close. I had previously rewired the icm connector and used heavier gauge wire to reduce the resistance to this value, it hasnt gone up over the few years but i dont think theres anything i can do to lower it any more at the icm. But it has ran great at this value in the past so i think its close enough o the spec that it should run just fine now as it did in the past
4-ok, neutral switch works and registers as its supposed to
5-ok, kick stand switch works and registers as its supposed to
6-ok, ground has continuity

ill test the kill switch in a little but i have pulled it apart not too long ago and gave a light quick polish to fresh brass and used dielectric grease and it was working perfect, and the fact that i do get spark albeit weak it i think it works just fine

everything is testing fine, i know compression should be fine, carbs are clean and can even give a little squirt of starting fluid and timing is good/hasnt changed, im starting to think there might be a icm issue, it is a used icm the manual says that the icm could cause a no spark problem but i dont want to throw money at it until im 100%
 

Last edited by tampa_git; Sep 6, 2021 at 03:53 PM.
Reply
Old Sep 8, 2021 | 07:36 AM
  #17  
Phil314's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 674
Likes: 53
From: 45.2521, -93.5612
Default

Not sure I've got a whole lot more to add here.
You've check just about everything I would suggest.
And it sounds like you know what you're doing.

So with that, my general advice would be to go back and re-check the simple things again.
So many time like this, I've seen people tear entire bikes apart, only to later find it was something simple.
Instead of digging deeper, check the simple stuff again. Fuses, wiring, loose connections, etc.

Also maybe try running gas from a separate container, bypass the tank/petcock.
And if you've got air/fuel/spark, then double check the timing things again.
You should be getting more than a sputter.

FWIW, icm going bad is very rare.

 
Reply
Old Sep 8, 2021 | 02:10 PM
  #18  
tampa_git's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Default

yeah that sounds like a good idea, ill recheck everything again just to be sure before i purchase anything, ive had the same thought of what are the odds its a icm issue but havent been able to identify anything else that it could be but to be fair i havent taken off the valve cover to check the valves yet so maybe ill do that prior to ordering a new(used) icm

and i have a motion pro auxiliary tank hooked up filled with fresh supreme gas so i know its not a filter or gas issue

only reason i think it could still be spark is i know for a fact i have compression, and fuel, i havent touched the timing since it was running great but even if it was slightly off shouldnt i get at least a pop or back fire at some point assuming i have fuel compression and spark in the chamber?

but ill check the valves/timing and ill recheck fuses, wiring and connections
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mosherj7
CBR 900RR
11
Aug 5, 2017 04:38 PM
bellbottomsdj
CBR 600F2
5
Jun 13, 2014 07:31 AM
Frankwhitef4i
F4i - Main Forum
8
Oct 15, 2013 07:30 AM
dandfarms07
CBR 600RR
5
Aug 19, 2013 08:27 PM
mattyg
F4i - Main Forum
6
Apr 26, 2007 02:58 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:38 AM.