Almost got it running... almost.
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Check power and grounds for fuel pump circuit. Right now I would stop and fix that problem and then move on to the next. You said it ran great with fuel dumped down the carb but you aren't getting fuel flow with the good pump installed, which suggests that spark is not an issue. Don't chase a possibly non-existent problem until you fix the positive problem you identified.
I don't have my manual with me (it's down at my shop and I won't be there til the weekend) but I'm sure Dennis or someone else with significant experience will have the answer to where the relay is question off the top of their head.
Looking at the wiring diagram I have on the computer there is a black and blue wire that runs straight from the fuel pump to the fuel relay. The relay itself has three wires, BK/BU, BK, and Y/BU. That might help you find it. I can also try to attach a copy of the diagram to this post.
Stand by. Looks like it uploaded. Hope this helps.
I don't have my manual with me (it's down at my shop and I won't be there til the weekend) but I'm sure Dennis or someone else with significant experience will have the answer to where the relay is question off the top of their head.
Looking at the wiring diagram I have on the computer there is a black and blue wire that runs straight from the fuel pump to the fuel relay. The relay itself has three wires, BK/BU, BK, and Y/BU. That might help you find it. I can also try to attach a copy of the diagram to this post.
Stand by. Looks like it uploaded. Hope this helps.
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Ok gotcha. So the large black plastic pistons inside each car are the "choke pistons", correct? I did remove these and am pretty sure I sprayed carb cleaner down the holes that the attached needles came out of, though I had no idea what they were at the time. I am fairly sure I did not remove the pilot screws, so what you said is making sense.
No. It's sounds like you are talking about the diaphram and slides. The needle on the end of the slide is the main fuel needle. Not what we are talking about. Look at the video I sent it calls out all of the components. The enricher (choke) pistons are under the small 13mm black plastic caps. There are small brass rods with undercuts that stick out. The choke mechanism arms connect to them. The rod with arms that connects to the choke cable. This is what that mechanism moves to give you extra fuel when you choke the bike.
I may as well pull the carbs back off again and do all this before trying the fuel pump bypass since they are still easy to get to right now. I do not have one of those carb synch devices, but I will make the adjustments as you mentioned. I found a good write up for synching carbs after removing the pilot screws, but that article advised going 2 turns out for US models.
Worry about fine tuning the sync after you get it running. There are many different specs for the pilot screw settings. I think the OEM shop manual says 2 1/4 turns. These setting are static setting to get the bike running after rebuild. Very few on the web understand that they need to be adjusted on the bike after it is running and hot. It's very difficult to do this. I fabricated a special tool for this. Once the bike is hot the pilot screw on each carb is adjusted to get the highest RPM (best fuel air mix). Then the idle is adjusted using the pilot ****. I have found that almost all of them need the screws turned out a bit...that's why I start at 2 1/2 turns. It will be very close to where it needs to be.
Very difficult to help when contradictory information keeps coming into the mix. You can find too many wrong ways to do this on the web because most people have no clue how to do it. I have been through this many times and am trying to give you the best information possible. It's your choice to do it right or do it over. Like I said you can find many threads on here very similar to this one...and people did it over and over. Also some where I told people their carbs were not clean or adjusted right...and they came back later and said that was right...even tho they thought they were clean or adjusted right. These carbs have to be clean...not in between. It isn't worth worrying about anything else until you get there. My guess is it will run fine once you get them clean and adjusted properly.
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No. It's sounds like you are talking about the diaphram and slides. The needle on the end of the slide is the main fuel needle. Not what we are talking about. Look at the video I sent it calls out all of the components. The enricher (choke) pistons are under the small 13mm black plastic caps. There are small brass rods with undercuts that stick out. The choke mechanism arms connect to them. The rod with arms that connects to the choke cable. This is what that mechanism moves to give you extra fuel when you choke the bike.
Worry about fine tuning the sync after you get it running. There are many different specs for the pilot screw settings. I think the OEM shop manual says 2 1/4 turns. These setting are static setting to get the bike running after rebuild. Very few on the web understand that they need to be adjusted on the bike after it is running and hot. It's very difficult to do this. I fabricated a special tool for this. Once the bike is hot the pilot screw on each carb is adjusted to get the highest RPM (best fuel air mix). Then the idle is adjusted using the pilot ****. I have found that almost all of them need the screws turned out a bit...that's why I start at 2 1/2 turns. It will be very close to where it needs to be.
Very difficult to help when contradictory information keeps coming into the mix. You can find too many wrong ways to do this on the web because most people have no clue how to do it. I have been through this many times and am trying to give you the best information possible. It's your choice to do it right or do it over. Like I said you can find many threads on here very similar to this one...and people did it over and over. Also some where I told people their carbs were not clean or adjusted right...and they came back later and said that was right...even tho they thought they were clean or adjusted right. These carbs have to be clean...not in between. It isn't worth worrying about anything else until you get there. My guess is it will run fine once you get them clean and adjusted properly.
Worry about fine tuning the sync after you get it running. There are many different specs for the pilot screw settings. I think the OEM shop manual says 2 1/4 turns. These setting are static setting to get the bike running after rebuild. Very few on the web understand that they need to be adjusted on the bike after it is running and hot. It's very difficult to do this. I fabricated a special tool for this. Once the bike is hot the pilot screw on each carb is adjusted to get the highest RPM (best fuel air mix). Then the idle is adjusted using the pilot ****. I have found that almost all of them need the screws turned out a bit...that's why I start at 2 1/2 turns. It will be very close to where it needs to be.
Very difficult to help when contradictory information keeps coming into the mix. You can find too many wrong ways to do this on the web because most people have no clue how to do it. I have been through this many times and am trying to give you the best information possible. It's your choice to do it right or do it over. Like I said you can find many threads on here very similar to this one...and people did it over and over. Also some where I told people their carbs were not clean or adjusted right...and they came back later and said that was right...even tho they thought they were clean or adjusted right. These carbs have to be clean...not in between. It isn't worth worrying about anything else until you get there. My guess is it will run fine once you get them clean and adjusted properly.
Will do. I am just trying to get my ducks in a row so I can get right to it when I get home tonight, won't have much time before bible study.
Also just picked up that muffler we had been discussing. It is for a Suzuki but included the mid pipe I was needing and the diameters and mounting point should be just right for my purpose.
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Just so you know I am pretty good at tuning these bikes here are a couple of videos of the more recent ones:
The first is the RR conversion bike. This is an 87 engine that I ran barely before I started converting it. The original bike was in storage for 20 years. The bike was completely rebuilt. The very last thing I did was rebuild the carbs and this was how it ran. This was a few months ago. It has Vance and Hines exhaust so has a wicked sound.
This is a 1990 that had been in a shed for 19 years. Video is after rebuilding carbs. This has stock exhaust so much quieter.
The first is the RR conversion bike. This is an 87 engine that I ran barely before I started converting it. The original bike was in storage for 20 years. The bike was completely rebuilt. The very last thing I did was rebuild the carbs and this was how it ran. This was a few months ago. It has Vance and Hines exhaust so has a wicked sound.
This is a 1990 that had been in a shed for 19 years. Video is after rebuilding carbs. This has stock exhaust so much quieter.
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Both sound great man! The wife wants to do that rear tail switch as well,I think it looks good. Did you replace the subframe as well?
Just made some progress. Added a funnel and tried the gravity feed thing, this time with starter fluid. No ignition at all.
On a whim I checked out the switch wiring at the kick stand, because the wife had been down there to empty the coolant and I had heard that switch causes problems.
Wiggle it a bit, tried to start it and it turned over. Got it to idle for awhile but it dies, sounds starved do I don't think the gravity feed is enough.
I believe the fuel pump is working again though so I am going to put the tank back on and try again.
All that being said, would the kickstand switch kill both ignition and fuel? Doesn't seem right to me because you can start a bike with the stand down.
Also I am still removing the carbs and doing your prescribed cleanings.
Just made some progress. Added a funnel and tried the gravity feed thing, this time with starter fluid. No ignition at all.
On a whim I checked out the switch wiring at the kick stand, because the wife had been down there to empty the coolant and I had heard that switch causes problems.
Wiggle it a bit, tried to start it and it turned over. Got it to idle for awhile but it dies, sounds starved do I don't think the gravity feed is enough.
I believe the fuel pump is working again though so I am going to put the tank back on and try again.
All that being said, would the kickstand switch kill both ignition and fuel? Doesn't seem right to me because you can start a bike with the stand down.
Also I am still removing the carbs and doing your prescribed cleanings.
Just so you know I am pretty good at tuning these bikes here are a couple of videos of the more recent ones:
The first is the RR conversion bike. This is an 87 engine that I ran barely before I started converting it. The original bike was in storage for 20 years. The bike was completely rebuilt. The very last thing I did was rebuild the carbs and this was how it ran. This was a few months ago. It has Vance and Hines exhaust so has a wicked sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbroT-MClMg
This is a 1990 that had been in a shed for 19 years. Video is after rebuilding carbs. This has stock exhaust so much quieter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noX9t8yjI_U
The first is the RR conversion bike. This is an 87 engine that I ran barely before I started converting it. The original bike was in storage for 20 years. The bike was completely rebuilt. The very last thing I did was rebuild the carbs and this was how it ran. This was a few months ago. It has Vance and Hines exhaust so has a wicked sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbroT-MClMg
This is a 1990 that had been in a shed for 19 years. Video is after rebuilding carbs. This has stock exhaust so much quieter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noX9t8yjI_U
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Ok headed to church but here's where I got. Put the tank and fuel pump back on and it's running. Sometimes it starts on it's own and sometimes I have to spray starter fluid through the intake ports on the frame. However it smokes. BAD. White smoke. Would this most likely be attributed to the carbs?
Both sound great man! The wife wants to do that rear tail switch as well,I think it looks good. Did you replace the subframe as well?
Just made some progress. Added a funnel and tried the gravity feed thing, this time with starter fluid. No ignition at all.
On a whim I checked out the switch wiring at the kick stand, because the wife had been down there to empty the coolant and I had heard that switch causes problems.
Wiggle it a bit, tried to start it and it turned over. Got it to idle for awhile but it dies, sounds starved do I don't think the gravity feed is enough.
I believe the fuel pump is working again though so I am going to put the tank back on and try again.
All that being said, would the kickstand switch kill both ignition and fuel? Doesn't seem right to me because you can start a bike with the stand down.
Also I am still removing the carbs and doing your prescribed cleanings.
Just made some progress. Added a funnel and tried the gravity feed thing, this time with starter fluid. No ignition at all.
On a whim I checked out the switch wiring at the kick stand, because the wife had been down there to empty the coolant and I had heard that switch causes problems.
Wiggle it a bit, tried to start it and it turned over. Got it to idle for awhile but it dies, sounds starved do I don't think the gravity feed is enough.
I believe the fuel pump is working again though so I am going to put the tank back on and try again.
All that being said, would the kickstand switch kill both ignition and fuel? Doesn't seem right to me because you can start a bike with the stand down.
Also I am still removing the carbs and doing your prescribed cleanings.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Sounds like you have some wiring gremlins there. At least you know where to start. The kickstand switch normally kills the engine if you put it in gear. I just had one with the wires unplugged under the seat and it still ran...couldn't shift it into gear tho. Took me a bit to figure out.
Sometimes they smoke for a bit after sitting for a long time. Run it for a while and see if it clears up. Watch the temp gauge. Check the oil after you run it. Generally white smoke if it doesn't clear up is either a head gasket or the seal on the water pump.
Some info on the RR bike since you like the tail. The tail is a fairly complicated mod. That bike I cut and bent the sub frame up and welded it and fabricated the back portion that the seat mounts to. I'm doing another one with an RR sub frame.
This is the build thread for the RR conversion bike. It took me 3 years to build it. I had some health issues along the way so it took a bit longer. This is a very popular thread and it's very long. You might find it interesting.
https://cbrforum.com/forum/cbr-600f-...ersion-144072/
This is a short thread with pictures of the bike when I drove out of the shop for the first time this summer.
https://cbrforum.com/forum/cbr-600f-...inally-154523/
Sometimes they smoke for a bit after sitting for a long time. Run it for a while and see if it clears up. Watch the temp gauge. Check the oil after you run it. Generally white smoke if it doesn't clear up is either a head gasket or the seal on the water pump.
Some info on the RR bike since you like the tail. The tail is a fairly complicated mod. That bike I cut and bent the sub frame up and welded it and fabricated the back portion that the seat mounts to. I'm doing another one with an RR sub frame.
This is the build thread for the RR conversion bike. It took me 3 years to build it. I had some health issues along the way so it took a bit longer. This is a very popular thread and it's very long. You might find it interesting.
https://cbrforum.com/forum/cbr-600f-...ersion-144072/
This is a short thread with pictures of the bike when I drove out of the shop for the first time this summer.
https://cbrforum.com/forum/cbr-600f-...inally-154523/
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Sounds like you have some wiring gremlins there. At least you know where to start. The kickstand switch normally kills the engine if you put it in gear. I just had one with the wires unplugged under the seat and it still ran...couldn't shift it into gear tho. Took me a bit to figure out.
Sometimes they smoke for a bit after sitting for a long time. Run it for a while and see if it clears up. Watch the temp gauge. Check the oil after you run it. Generally white smoke if it doesn't clear up is either a head gasket or the seal on the water pump.
Some info on the RR bike since you like the tail. The tail is a fairly complicated mod. That bike I cut and bent the sub frame up and welded it and fabricated the back portion that the seat mounts to. I'm doing another one with an RR sub frame.
This is the build thread for the RR conversion bike. It took me 3 years to build it. I had some health issues along the way so it took a bit longer. This is a very popular thread and it's very long. You might find it interesting.
https://cbrforum.com/forum/cbr-600f-...ersion-144072/
This is a short thread with pictures of the bike when I drove out of the shop for the first time this summer.
https://cbrforum.com/forum/cbr-600f-...inally-154523/
Sometimes they smoke for a bit after sitting for a long time. Run it for a while and see if it clears up. Watch the temp gauge. Check the oil after you run it. Generally white smoke if it doesn't clear up is either a head gasket or the seal on the water pump.
Some info on the RR bike since you like the tail. The tail is a fairly complicated mod. That bike I cut and bent the sub frame up and welded it and fabricated the back portion that the seat mounts to. I'm doing another one with an RR sub frame.
This is the build thread for the RR conversion bike. It took me 3 years to build it. I had some health issues along the way so it took a bit longer. This is a very popular thread and it's very long. You might find it interesting.
https://cbrforum.com/forum/cbr-600f-...ersion-144072/
This is a short thread with pictures of the bike when I drove out of the shop for the first time this summer.
https://cbrforum.com/forum/cbr-600f-...inally-154523/
Oh wow! In discussion I had assumed you just did the tail. I read through the project thread,that was a lot of work. I wish I had the shop time right now for a project like that! Right now between work, kids, school and keeping up with things that break I am about tapped out!
So here is my update; I pulled the carbs last night and started to remove the fuel air mixture screws. What a hot mess. Today I cheated and brought the carbs into work to tinker with between tasks. I got 1-3 out, but #4 is stuck and I keep crumbling brass trying to remove it. Right now I have the aluminum head back on it with superglue and CLP soaking the threads. Hopefully it holds enough to break it loose.
As you can see #1 is a crazy hot mess. Looks like the wrong needle screw, it is bent, there were 2 springs in there instead of one and they threw an additional washer in there for good measure..... oh dear.
The best price I am finding on a set of screws is $50 on Ebay, which I am hesitant to purchase because I'm not sure how far down this rabbit hole I want to go. This was supposed to be a cheap fixer-upper learner bike for the wife.
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And the bloody aftermath of screw #4. I believe I qualify for Zen Master after getting this thing off. Unless I can find a full set of 4 needle screws I think I am going to try and salvage this one by filing the head flat and slot it for a flat tip screwdriver.
http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/projo1981/media/20161020_143609_zpsiut8ndcr.jpg.html]
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From: Bainbridge Is., WA
The best price I am finding on a set of screws is $50 on Ebay, which I am hesitant to purchase because I'm not sure how far down this rabbit hole I want to go. This was supposed to be a cheap fixer-upper learner bike for the wife.
1990 Honda CBR600F CBR 600F Hurricane H986-1' carburetors carbs assy | eBay
Listen to Denny - clean those choke enrichment circuit passages very thoroughly.