I'm not bowing out cause of disagreement. Just because I already know what your point of view is and I haven't had impact in any of your threads so far. Its one of those you don't know what you don't know yet kinda things.

Getting lucky and saving your *** in a panic is not finding an undiscovered "skill" IMO.

That's where we disagree. .

But I'll add to the topic of the thread that street riding does require more awareness overall, whether or not that's considered a skill or not I suppose is subject to opinion.

 

Maybe yall misunderstand something. I never ride at 100% of my ability unless circumstances force me to. Even when practicing, I keep a reserve. That means there are things I've never intentionally done but I'm fully capable of doing if necessary. For example I have no reason to pull a stoppie. I don't do stunts. But when someone pulled a lefthander 3-5 car lengths in front of me on my F3, a stoppie was the result of the level of braking I needed to stop. It wasn't a panicked response and it Damn sure wasn't luck to be able to stop that hard that fast. It was the result of practice and preparation.

To believe the mind doesn't create barriers is foolhardy Imo. Part of every riding and track school deals with overcoming them. Target fixation, chopping throttle and short vision are things the mind does that hinder both safe riding and skill progression. And no matter how cautiously a rider approaches things, no matter how much practice they put in, they will have to step out of their comfort zone to progress. Maybe you've ridden long enough to forget those moments, zaqwert6, but I do remember feeling uneasy when I first scraped a peg. Or the first time I let the rear drift.

Chit happens. When it does, it doesn't mean someone is riding foolishly or did something wrong. It means chit happened.

 

Riding on the track should be more physically demanding than riding on the street. The reason I said "should" is because it is foolish to push the bike and rider to anything above 80% of their limits on the street. On the street there are too many uncontrollable variables to allow a rider to ride that close to the limit without eventually getting bitten. (I would even venture to say that riding above 60% on the street could put you into hot water sooner or later.) Going fast is hugely fun, and is likely the reason most of us have sportbikes, but going faster than the traffic around you, or faster than conditions allow for is eventually going to get you, and potentially someone else, hurt or killed.

To anyone that likes to push the envelope, see how far they can lean, how far they can hang off the seat, how hard they can brake, etc... I strongly encourage you to sign up for a track day or some sort of advanced rider course.

Pushing either the bike's or rider's limits on the street is bad form. You aren't just endangering yourself. Public roads are for the public. Not everyone on those roads is expecting or prepared to deal with someone pushing the limits and the potential consequences such an action can present. Be warned that there are many folks out there that subscribe to the belief "endanger me or my family and friends, expect the full wrath and furry of an angry mob chasing you down".

 

I had a situation years back when I was riding my older 89 Hurricane. I was cruising down the road going par with speed limit, then suddenly a fixed up Acura Integra with 5 dudes full house tailgating me. I try losing them but they keep on HOT pursue, like they wanted to kill me. I thought, somehow I must of did something wrong??? Why a bunch of dudes in an Acura trying to run me down. So that was the only time I really push 100% to my abilty just to get away (locally). I was doing 95MPH in a 45 zone. But the driver in the Acura was very persistant! Keep on coming......I throttle hard, trying to cut every corner as possible just to lose them.....then I surpass a COP! Cop flashes his lights and jump out from a drive way....COP end up pulling the ACURA over, in my mind was if the COP pulls me over, I have a perfect explaination to as why I am pushing it so hard. I made a few right corner every block, then shut off my lights/engine & pull into an apt driveway. Waited a good 20 minutes until my hydrendaline comes down before hopping back on and ride home. When I was waiting, my cell phone receives a incoming call. I pick up.....It was my buddy & his friends. He just purchase a new car ACURA, and wanted to stop by to show me, but saw me on my bike so chase me....he thought I knew it was him, so he tailgated me....WTF??? He got a ticket for tailgate to close on a motorcycle.

Well, thats my story of when I felt the need to push hard (beyond my limit). Since I never track, so I cannot comment on that...but on the streets, LUCK plays a big roll. Though you can take all the necessary steps to lessen the risk of being injured...but if bad luck comes, it's really hard to avoid.

On track, my guess is SKILLS plays the bigger roll since it's you & the track = lap time.

 

To put my .02 in, i'm going to have to disagree with zaqwert6, respectfully of course. I think the track is an entire different beast. I've only been to the track a number of times, but what i have learned is it's much easier to transfer track skills to the road, than road skills to the track. It's very rare to find a stretch of area that lets you do the speeds and turns that a controlled track can. It's nothing about being stupid, or anything like that, it's a skill set that takes much more out of the rider. I've done 6-8 hour rides, but after doing a few sessions on a track i'm exhausted. The track demands more of a rider, and it's an environment you're constantly trying to improve and better your skills. Then on a saturday or sunday you decide to go on a spirited ride, you can take those skills and apply them, within limits of course. Yes the track is safer than streets, but that doesn't mean there isn't danger on the track. Going 80mph in my neck of the woods would be considered speeding, on a track, that's considered slow.

It's my take on the situation i understand people will disagree, but from my experiences this is what i've gathered. I've met quiet a few people on the tracks that don't really find a need to go out riding anymore, they'd rather be on the track.