You obviously did not read the story in the link, silly. You can lean it right into the ground but that will not change the direction of travel. Here is a paragraph from it. Please read the entire article sometime.

Steering a motorcycle results from the process of pushing the inside bar forward, the same angle and direction the forks rotate in the steering head bearings. You can also pull on the outside bar. You can do both push and pull. That is what turns it; that is all that turns it with any degree of accuracy, efficiency, quickness or smoothness. That and only that, No B.S.

 

Dude. I've graduated the Superbike school back in 97 or 98. Level 3 IIRC, I don't have to read the article. Now they didn't have that bike back then but the same concepts have been taught for like 20+ years. Except that bike actually makes it harder to do than if it was stock since it still has you hanging on to the front end of the bike. Its also gets harder to do as the speed increases.

You can still change direction on that bike without touching the bars , you can't take it into a complete turn as the geometry of the bike naturally wants to stand the bike back up but that not what we're talking about here. We're talking about people having a tendancy to intiate the start of the turn with that same lean and many people do before putting any input into the bars, no matter how subtle it is.

Unless your just trying to split hairs for the sake of arguement IDK. First you said you can't change direction of the bike without touching the bars, then your saying the front wheel turns when you do. And now your quoting "with any degree of accuracy, efficiency, quickness or smoothness". I don't at all deny that. All I simply said was you can steer the bike with out touching the bars. you can maintain your line down the road, you can change lanes, you can take it around a turn if its gradual enough.

Can you get it all leaned over into a turn , no you can't on a stock rake and trail. The steering geometry takes care of that although some bikes, depending on how aggressive that setup is stock will give you more or less ability to move the bike around. Not everone is riding around on a race prepped superbike/sportbike which is Keiths focus in the school. However some standards and cruisers will actually fall into a turn. In fact, if you ever saw someone put a motorcycle on the side kickstand and the bars/wheel turns in and slams into the stops (like many older cruisers/Harleys), that bike will literally fall over into a turn if you let go of the bars.

I don't want anyone to do anything stupid but next time your coasting in an open space, just lean back hands off the bars and see if you can control the bike. I'm sure someone here has done it coasting into a stop light and been able to keep the bike where you want it ,keep it from drifting off the road etc.

 

Stunters do it all of the time when they turn backwards on a bike and use micro movements to keep the bike stable/going straight.



Also: I've been mountain biking/BMXing my whole life, rode a few dirtbikes, scooters, and a ninja 250. I NEVER thought about how I was turning at above 30MPH on any of them. I just did it... but now reading all of this will have me super conscious about it. lol

 

I actually went out screwing around with this today and to be honest, on the CBR, I was truly surprised at how much you can steer the bike around with your body only. Probably supports the notion that these bikes were a bit on the unstable side way back in the day.

 

Couple things I wanna to toss some pennies at

1. True, counter-steering isnt a "technique". Everyone must use it to turn at speed whether they know it or not. BUT I believe for many it has to be brought to the conscious level when discussing how to turn quickly and effectively at speed.
2. When people say you can't body steer, i dont think they're clarifying what they mean. Yes, you can body steer the bike. But again, to steer quickly and effectively you have to countersteer. That's the part they're not adding on

 

I agree entirely. Which is why I was trying to separate the conscious application of counter steer to initiate a turn versus what happens once your in that turn.

 

That is because when you shift your weight you are turning the bars ever so slightly.

How many times do I have to post the Keith Code No B.S. Machine link that proves that countersteering is what turns a bike? According to the article many people thought that leaning is what steers it...until they rode the bike with the locked in place bars and they could not get it to change direction.

I can ride my bicycle all day long without touching the bars by shifting my weight. When I do that I am slightly turning the front wheel and that's what makes it change direction. I can probably lock my Throttlemeister on my CBR at 30 mph, take my hands off the grips and shift my weight around and get it to change direction. Again, when I do this the bars turn ever so slightly and it changes direction. Much easier to do on a 17 lb bicycle than a 430 lb motorcycle but the concept is the same.

 

Geez. I don't know how to talk to you. You keep wanting me to read something but you dont seem to read very well.

I said a number of times that the bars turn when you lean the bike. I also said I've been thru the superbiike school with the gentleman who wrote the article... like 14 years ago. I've also tried to explain in simple terms, the geometry of some motorcycles and why they do what they do.

BTW, the bars on the BS bike are NOT locked. There's simply a second set of bars mounted. The stock stock steering is completely intact and functions normally.

Then you tell me I'm wrong after you tell me your can do exactly what I'm telling you you can do.

I guess ill just have to pass on discussing it with you. Have a great day.

 

**** it y'all are both right and y'all are both wrong!

 

Don't worry. I'm done offering my insight on anything technical over here anymore.

Everyone knows it all already. How did we ever survive before Google.