some kid on myspace forum
#41
09-25-2007, 06:21 AM
RE: some kid on myspace forum
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Aretha Franklin was right, and that's the true issue here. As for genetics, differences have been proven, and nature's differencescan be exacerbated by nurture's influences. Having been able to dunk since freshman year of HS (as a 6'1" white guy), playing varsity baseball and football as well, getting up and doing well my first time waterskiing, wrestling angry pitbulls weighing over 100 lbs., and having ridden from a 92 Seca up to my current 900RR, I can tell you the sports need genetics, the conquering your fears and riding have nothing to do with genetics.
You can get hurt yanking wheelies and doing burnouts on a Ninja 250, just as you can keep a 'Busa under 20 mph at all times...the issue isn't the bike, it's the rider. Falling off a bike at 90 is the same regardless of the bike (it just costs more on a more expensive ride). The problem with a lot of new riders is that they "drive" their bikes, rather than "ride" them.It's like one of thosepitbullsor a tiger - you have to respect it, and understand it's gonna do what it wants with you to a degree, you're only inputting ideas.You turn the bars or shove the dog off to the side, but there's no guarantee thatthe tires don't come unglued or that the head doesn't whip around andsnap at you - youjust have to be prepared to react.
I really believe a newbie can handle a 1000 (I think I could've); the problem is that they don't know to respect it enough. Rather than slowly learn, everyone wants to do 100+ on the highway, and then you get those emergency situations that were mentioned. Anyone can learn to tame a tiger, as well, and can do it from the beginning. The thing is, they have to know the difference between fear and respect - it's not impossible to learn, it's just far easier to start with Ninjas and poodles, work up to 600s and Rotts, and then graduate to Hayabusas and snake-charming...if newbies would take safety courses (on the 250s) and learn their way on their own (big) bikes, but slowly, they'd be okay. Sadly, most people don't buy sportbikes for the fun of cruising and later flying (fully understanding how close to death they really are), they get them to show off the speed and power, often well before they're equipped to properly guide that speed and power effectively onto the road.
Aretha Franklin was right, and that's the true issue here. As for genetics, differences have been proven, and nature's differencescan be exacerbated by nurture's influences. Having been able to dunk since freshman year of HS (as a 6'1" white guy), playing varsity baseball and football as well, getting up and doing well my first time waterskiing, wrestling angry pitbulls weighing over 100 lbs., and having ridden from a 92 Seca up to my current 900RR, I can tell you the sports need genetics, the conquering your fears and riding have nothing to do with genetics.
You can get hurt yanking wheelies and doing burnouts on a Ninja 250, just as you can keep a 'Busa under 20 mph at all times...the issue isn't the bike, it's the rider. Falling off a bike at 90 is the same regardless of the bike (it just costs more on a more expensive ride). The problem with a lot of new riders is that they "drive" their bikes, rather than "ride" them.It's like one of thosepitbullsor a tiger - you have to respect it, and understand it's gonna do what it wants with you to a degree, you're only inputting ideas.You turn the bars or shove the dog off to the side, but there's no guarantee thatthe tires don't come unglued or that the head doesn't whip around andsnap at you - youjust have to be prepared to react.
I really believe a newbie can handle a 1000 (I think I could've); the problem is that they don't know to respect it enough. Rather than slowly learn, everyone wants to do 100+ on the highway, and then you get those emergency situations that were mentioned. Anyone can learn to tame a tiger, as well, and can do it from the beginning. The thing is, they have to know the difference between fear and respect - it's not impossible to learn, it's just far easier to start with Ninjas and poodles, work up to 600s and Rotts, and then graduate to Hayabusas and snake-charming...if newbies would take safety courses (on the 250s) and learn their way on their own (big) bikes, but slowly, they'd be okay. Sadly, most people don't buy sportbikes for the fun of cruising and later flying (fully understanding how close to death they really are), they get them to show off the speed and power, often well before they're equipped to properly guide that speed and power effectively onto the road.
#42
09-25-2007, 07:13 AM
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RE: some kid on myspace forum
I really believe a newbie can handle a 1000 (I think I could've); the problem is that they don't know to respect it enough. Rather than slowly learn, everyone wants to do 100+ on the highway, and then you get those emergency situations that were mentioned.
The process of starting slowly and improving skills works. The problem is that technology has outpaced Human abilities and marketing by motorcycle companies has clouded out judgement. It is crazy that WE know a certian percentage of people can buy a 600 and not crash hard during the learning curve, but the odds go up as power increases, it is just a math problem really. The other thing is the curve for 'twisties learning', this is again best learned on a small bike. So there is the problem is a little more clear isn't it?
#43
09-25-2007, 07:20 AM
RE: some kid on myspace forum
ORIGINAL: halfwayd
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Aretha Franklin was right, and that's the true issue here. As for genetics, differences have been proven, and nature's differencescan be exacerbated by nurture's influences. Having been able to dunk since freshman year of HS (as a 6'1" white guy), playing varsity baseball and football as well, getting up and doing well my first time waterskiing, wrestling angry pitbulls weighing over 100 lbs., and having ridden from a 92 Seca up to my current 900RR, I can tell you the sports need genetics, the conquering your fears and riding have nothing to do with genetics.
You can get hurt yanking wheelies and doing burnouts on a Ninja 250, just as you can keep a 'Busa under 20 mph at all times...the issue isn't the bike, it's the rider. Falling off a bike at 90 is the same regardless of the bike (it just costs more on a more expensive ride). The problem with a lot of new riders is that they "drive" their bikes, rather than "ride" them.It's like one of thosepitbullsor a tiger - you have to respect it, and understand it's gonna do what it wants with you to a degree, you're only inputting ideas.You turn the bars or shove the dog off to the side, but there's no guarantee thatthe tires don't come unglued or that the head doesn't whip around andsnap at you - youjust have to be prepared to react.
I really believe a newbie can handle a 1000 (I think I could've); the problem is that they don't know to respect it enough. Rather than slowly learn, everyone wants to do 100+ on the highway, and then you get those emergency situations that were mentioned. Anyone can learn to tame a tiger, as well, and can do it from the beginning. The thing is, they have to know the difference between fear and respect - it's not impossible to learn, it's just far easier to start with Ninjas and poodles, work up to 600s and Rotts, and then graduate to Hayabusas and snake-charming...if newbies would take safety courses (on the 250s) and learn their way on their own (big) bikes, but slowly, they'd be okay. Sadly, most people don't buy sportbikes for the fun of cruising and later flying (fully understanding how close to death they really are), they get them to show off the speed and power, often well before they're equipped to properly guide that speed and power effectively onto the road.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Aretha Franklin was right, and that's the true issue here. As for genetics, differences have been proven, and nature's differencescan be exacerbated by nurture's influences. Having been able to dunk since freshman year of HS (as a 6'1" white guy), playing varsity baseball and football as well, getting up and doing well my first time waterskiing, wrestling angry pitbulls weighing over 100 lbs., and having ridden from a 92 Seca up to my current 900RR, I can tell you the sports need genetics, the conquering your fears and riding have nothing to do with genetics.
You can get hurt yanking wheelies and doing burnouts on a Ninja 250, just as you can keep a 'Busa under 20 mph at all times...the issue isn't the bike, it's the rider. Falling off a bike at 90 is the same regardless of the bike (it just costs more on a more expensive ride). The problem with a lot of new riders is that they "drive" their bikes, rather than "ride" them.It's like one of thosepitbullsor a tiger - you have to respect it, and understand it's gonna do what it wants with you to a degree, you're only inputting ideas.You turn the bars or shove the dog off to the side, but there's no guarantee thatthe tires don't come unglued or that the head doesn't whip around andsnap at you - youjust have to be prepared to react.
I really believe a newbie can handle a 1000 (I think I could've); the problem is that they don't know to respect it enough. Rather than slowly learn, everyone wants to do 100+ on the highway, and then you get those emergency situations that were mentioned. Anyone can learn to tame a tiger, as well, and can do it from the beginning. The thing is, they have to know the difference between fear and respect - it's not impossible to learn, it's just far easier to start with Ninjas and poodles, work up to 600s and Rotts, and then graduate to Hayabusas and snake-charming...if newbies would take safety courses (on the 250s) and learn their way on their own (big) bikes, but slowly, they'd be okay. Sadly, most people don't buy sportbikes for the fun of cruising and later flying (fully understanding how close to death they really are), they get them to show off the speed and power, often well before they're equipped to properly guide that speed and power effectively onto the road.
#44
09-25-2007, 09:14 AM
RE: some kid on myspace forum
Well its clear that everyone agrees that 1000's are bad beginner bikes because they are very forgiving with mistakes, but I dont think anyone has mentioned any other reason a bigger bike is bad for a beginner (if anyone did mention the following reasons, my bad).
One big problem with beginning on a 1k is that your riding skills don't improve as fast as if you were on a smaller bike. I read an article about this in sport rider or something, but it was a while ago and my memory, not so good. Basically, on a slower bike a rider will be forced to push it harder to achieve the same results as on a faster bike, so the rider will learn how to be a better rider. Pushing the limits might sound dangerous, but since the slower bike is a slower bike it isn't as bad. Trying to push a fast bike to the limits will get a newb rider killed. You can kinda see this at the track when 1k's are gettin smoked by 600's constantly, because its definitly not the bikes fault.
Well this was pretty much the worst summarization of the article I read ever. But I think it gets the point across sorta.
One big problem with beginning on a 1k is that your riding skills don't improve as fast as if you were on a smaller bike. I read an article about this in sport rider or something, but it was a while ago and my memory, not so good. Basically, on a slower bike a rider will be forced to push it harder to achieve the same results as on a faster bike, so the rider will learn how to be a better rider. Pushing the limits might sound dangerous, but since the slower bike is a slower bike it isn't as bad. Trying to push a fast bike to the limits will get a newb rider killed. You can kinda see this at the track when 1k's are gettin smoked by 600's constantly, because its definitly not the bikes fault.
Well this was pretty much the worst summarization of the article I read ever. But I think it gets the point across sorta.
#45
09-25-2007, 09:55 AM
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RE: some kid on myspace forum
ORIGINAL: sixhundredrr
No truly experienced rider will ever tell a newb that it is ok to start on a liter bike. Anymore, I wouldn't recommend a newer 600 for a beginner. People say it all depends on the rider, but what about when that rider acts incorrectly during a panic situation and twists the throttle to full accidentially? A newb does not have the years of experience that are required for proper decision making and second nature reactions.
Whomever that dude is, he should be shut up because his advice may get someone killed.
No truly experienced rider will ever tell a newb that it is ok to start on a liter bike. Anymore, I wouldn't recommend a newer 600 for a beginner. People say it all depends on the rider, but what about when that rider acts incorrectly during a panic situation and twists the throttle to full accidentially? A newb does not have the years of experience that are required for proper decision making and second nature reactions.
Whomever that dude is, he should be shut up because his advice may get someone killed.
#46
09-25-2007, 10:17 AM
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RE: some kid on myspace forum
ORIGINAL: Donohu40
Alot of people say that a big bike is bad for beginners because in a close call situation they might panic and twist an unforgivable throttle, but I think that people should not even put themselves in a situation that would make them panic. You need to ride defensively and just expect every other car on the road to cut you off. And when your going around a turn you need to expect there to be some **** in the road that may make you go down. You won't panic over something that you are already expecting.
Alot of people say that a big bike is bad for beginners because in a close call situation they might panic and twist an unforgivable throttle, but I think that people should not even put themselves in a situation that would make them panic. You need to ride defensively and just expect every other car on the road to cut you off. And when your going around a turn you need to expect there to be some **** in the road that may make you go down. You won't panic over something that you are already expecting.
#47
09-25-2007, 10:30 AM
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RE: some kid on myspace forum
ORIGINAL: 2QK4U2C
The whole point is that it's unexpected...thats like saying i dont wear my seatbelt b/c i wont put my self in a situation to crash...ANYTHING can happen and w/o experiance it's harder to get out of that situation on a very heavy, powerful bike. Would you suggest a new driver start out on a Viper? No, b/c they don't have experiance...even if they are responsible people that car can get you into a whole lot more trouble than a Civic.
The whole point is that it's unexpected...thats like saying i dont wear my seatbelt b/c i wont put my self in a situation to crash...ANYTHING can happen and w/o experiance it's harder to get out of that situation on a very heavy, powerful bike. Would you suggest a new driver start out on a Viper? No, b/c they don't have experiance...even if they are responsible people that car can get you into a whole lot more trouble than a Civic.
Another point, which I don't think has been explored yet, is cost effectiveness. What I mean is that it's obviously less expensive starting out on a smaller bike. It's not only the initial cost of the motorcycle I'm talking about, but also the cost of insurance.It's stupid topay more fora bike just because ofits "cool" factor, especiallysinceitwould not be used to it's fullest potential with a new rider.
Also, I believe parts are a bit cheaper for 600's due in part to their large number of followers...
#48
09-25-2007, 11:40 AM
RE: some kid on myspace forum
I believe there needs to be more emphasis on making the smaller CC bikes more visually appealing. To a point, I can understand not wanting to ride something that fricking ugly to start. A 250 or 400 that looks like it's larger cousins would definitely make some more beginners think "well, this isn't so bad. I can deal with this for a while" instead of "screw that ugly POS." Kawasucki has the right idea with their new 250 concept.
#49
09-25-2007, 11:51 AM
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RE: some kid on myspace forum
ORIGINAL: sixhundredrr
I believe there needs to be more emphasis on making the smaller CC bikes more visually appealing. To a point, I can understand not wanting to ride something that fricking ugly to start. A 250 or 400 that looks like it's larger cousins would definitely make some more beginners think "well, this isn't so bad. I can deal with this for a while" instead of "screw that ugly POS." Kawasucki has the right idea with their new 250 concept.
I believe there needs to be more emphasis on making the smaller CC bikes more visually appealing. To a point, I can understand not wanting to ride something that fricking ugly to start. A 250 or 400 that looks like it's larger cousins would definitely make some more beginners think "well, this isn't so bad. I can deal with this for a while" instead of "screw that ugly POS." Kawasucki has the right idea with their new 250 concept.
Us Americans are funny (I include Canadians here-for the most part). A 250 is like a joke to most. Damn, toa lot ofpeople here, a 600 is a joke. In pretty much every other country, people love their 250's and 400's. For all practical purposes, they can really be great bikes. Americans always need bigger and faster. How come we always have to go a million mph. to be happy?
#50
09-25-2007, 12:23 PM
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RE: some kid on myspace forum
Hell, all across Europe, South America, and Asia, scooters are a major mode of transportation and it has nothing to do with the size of your *****. Only in America, where we are so spoiled, would you hear people bitchin' about having to ride a 250 or a 600. No wonder the world hates us...nothing is good enough.
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