AlrightFuze, now I understand you a little better. You seem a little more level-headed to me now. I understand where you're coming from though. It's easy to get worked up over rider stupidity and ignorance. And the guy on the bike does make a difference.

 

Man I'm really glad to hear that most guys especially with the limited number of months experience won't say miles of course. You have well paid your dues but most with less than a years experience have a hard time controlling that throttle and it with respect and knowledge are the key to mature riding. Have you ran the Dragon yet ? You are as close as I am to it. and the WERA /se. circuit. I think does cover your area. It has been awhile since I looked [sm=smiley20.gif]

 

The first motorcycle I ever rode was a 100cc Yamaha Enduro (1972). I rode that for about 6 years before I got my drivers' license. I recently got my 1991 CBR1000F on the road this July. I've been riding it since then and have only laid it down once in the driveway when I came to a stop, put my foot down and it slid sideways on the gravel.

I'm sure the bike isn't running at 100% potential power as I think it needs a full tuneup and all I've done so far are new plugs and air cleaner, but it scares me enough as is and I'm not going to push it.

I haven't had any interest in doing wheelies or brakies. I can't say that the idea of trying to learn hasn't crossed my mind, just for more handling characteristic experience (not for show-off factor).

I think regardless of the size of the bike, it's the rider who controls it. It's the rider who should learn the properties of their bikesand ride within their experience and ability and who should only try to expand experience and ability cautiously, as safely as possible and with as much knowledge and equipment necessary all the while accepting the inevitable risks.

Just because you have the power doesn't mean you have to use it, and when you do, use it cautiously and wisely. Some people just aren't mature enough or even capable of handling such power responsibly. Others are, have and do.

I just look at my family and remind myself what I would be risking if I were to become complacent or irresponsible with it.

 

I don't want you guys to think I won't meet you half way at all, but being level headed and responsible does not compensate for inexperience. I can ride everyday and know that I will wreck one day, and know that I have to take it easy, but that does nothing in a situation where your instincts control your reactions and not your reason. There are still times I give my bike just a tad too much throttle and if I was not holding on, I would have fallen off the back of the bike. I can't imagine what that feels like on an rr. If I am still capable of that (not saying im an expert, but with right under 2 yrs of experience) a noob on an overpowered bike is definitely at risk of doing the same, no matter how conservative or level header he is, especially given that the throttle response on my bike is nowhere near that of an rr. I don't think I will ever buy a liter bike, there is no reason to unless I was into drag racing, which im not.

So in conclusion, does the rider's mentality have an impact on his odds? Yes.
Does the rider's mentality determine his ultimate outcome? No.

 

Now just imagine tat with a liter, which can do power wheelies from the word go.

I wont argue it any more but a complete n00b starting out on a 600ss esp a newer one, is dumb. A n00b starting out on a liter has a death wish. Plain Simple truth. If you started out on either and aint dead or crashed yet count your blessings.

God bless & peace!

 

It seems the general consensus is that attitude (which is determined a great deal by maturity) is the deciding factor in keeping riders whole and alive with size of bike second. Perhaps they are right. Certainly a mature individual with a good attittude toward learning and great self control could do it.

Some argue that a slower bike has little to do with safety while learning - I respectfully disagree. Rrasco comments on the effect of too much throttle. One assumes he is a fairly experienced rider who knows his bike. Consider the effect on a noob riding a 1kRR doing the same thing as opposed to the noob on, let's say, an SV650 grabbing too much throttle. As more than one motor journalist has commented, much horsepower, little weight and a gob of throttle compress distance and time to where only trained reflexes can handle some circumstances. The noob hasn't had time to develop those yet, and that's where trouble starts. By the time he has gone through "this is the clutch, that's the brake, I need to roll off the throttle and squeeze the brake and not jerk it" --- it's too late and he is on the ground.

The major reason I hold out for a less powerful bike as a learning machine is that its response to throttle, brake, and steering inputs aren't as dramatic orrapid as those of the average 600 or 1000 RR. That gives the rider more time to think about what is happening until given actions become reflex and he no longer has to think them through. And yes , even a 250 will go fast enough to kill you, but it won't reach those speeds nearly as quickly as a larger bike.

Freebie makes an important point, too. Moving from a smaller bike to a largerone safely requires enough intellegence to be scared just a little at what you're riding.Perhaps that's what keeps the mature rider alive.

FWIW Freebie, my present ride is a'91 CBR1000F. Perhaps down on power compared to the modern 1000's, but carries me and my luggage all day with no complaints. Great bike. Congratulations on your acquisition.

 

I think i'm missing the point of this discussion.

Everyone seems to agree that sportbikes aren't good beginner bikes and everyone agrees that if you ride any bike like your invincible you're gonna go boom.

Is there anything else to it?

 

As far as I can remember the discussion began over whether or not, a liter bike is an acceptable or appropriate for a beginners bike. I think most of us have come to the agreement that for 95% of those beginning to ride, It is an ill-suited size to begin with, unless you demonstrate a great deal of common sense and respect for the bike. I'm going to include a photo of my wife from a few years ago back when I had an ST1100 we had a friend who was out of the country at the time and owned a PC 800 now, while the bike produces only a mild amount of horsepower. It is still an extremely large and heavy bike, especially for someone who is only 5'1 and 100 pounds it was only because of her previous riding experience she was able to handle this bike we have discussed in great length. Some of the reasoning for someone to think they need a liter bike. I still firmly believe it is the male pride and ego sports car mentality, more than anything else. We have not discussed some of the most common mistakes that are made by beginning riders on any size bike. But on a large liter bike there is less time to correct a mistake and recover of course the most common mistakes made by most is the lack of action. Just freezing on the bars and making no action, You have to let that sheer panic pass in just hundreds of a second and react other big common mistake is the unwillingness to lean while in a corner. Most of the time it is best to throttle up and pull yourself on through the line. If you are willing to lean, then sometimes the accident is caused by peer pressure any inexperienced rider will find himself out with a group who have been riding quite a while and are very comfortable with their bike and find themselves pushing themselves be on their experience level. And there is the all too common point fixation When a riding with the group. You'll find yourself fixated on the man in front of you hooking his line and forget to concentrate on where they're headed. Not looking through the curve for themselves and setting themselves up for the best possible line through that curve but setting themselves up for an accident. Then there are the invincible riders, who usually meet their fate at a 100 mph in between two tractor-trailers when trying to cut between them and realize when it's too late. There is a dead pocket of air their literally or T-bone in intersection or hit by that mystery car turning usely left. The learning curve was just too steep for them and it is sad. It ended that way, and they also end up giving the rest of us a bad name

BTW the little lady who said she would never ride again. Just registered as a member her name is Swt_poet