Rear brake, use it or not?
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Las Cruces, NM
RE: Rear brake, use it or not?
ORIGINAL: meanstrk
If you want proof, do some tests to see which stops you fastest and in the most controlled manner.
If you want proof, do some tests to see which stops you fastest and in the most controlled manner.
I was doing 75 mph on the highway a few weeks ago and had to hit the brakes hard to avoid hitting a deer. 75 mph to stop. Both brakes, HARD. Not once did it ever feel like the back end was going to break loose on me. Now am I saying that there is no possible way? No. I would like to how you feel the back end is easy to loose when braking like you should (straight and on the brakes without locking the rear.) How do you loose the back end?
Those that consider me a douche bag for saying this, well, maybe you should try some advanced courses some time.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,026
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From: Dalton, GA
RE: Rear brake, use it or not?
ORIGINAL: Blue Fox
Stopping with the front and rear brake in a straight line stops you the quickest in the most controlled manner. That's exactly the point of this thread. Even in an emergency braking situation, MSF and Advanced MSF teach to use both front and rear brakes during all stops, as well as emergency stops..........even at elevated speeds.
I was doing 75 mph on the highway a few weeks ago and had to hit the brakes hard to avoid hitting a deer. 75 mph to stop. Both brakes, HARD. Not once did it ever feel like the back end was going to break loose on me. Now am I saying that there is no possible way? No. I would like to how you feel the back end is easy to loose when braking like you should (straight and on the brakes without locking the rear.) How do you loose the back end?
Those that consider me a douche bag for saying this, well, maybe you should try some advanced courses some time.
No one ever called or assumed anyone to be a douche bag first off. And yes, I taken advanced classes a plenty (Keith Code's Superbike School, Level I graduate, MSF and Advanced MSF course graduate, Track day attendee and race-school graduate from the local track.) - but me listing classes I've taken only shows that I'm trying to gain credibility for my comments, which I don't need. It's a proven fact that braking with both brakes in an emergency situation stops the bike quicker, and in a more controlled manner than the front brakes alone. Whether it be 25 mph or 70.
ORIGINAL: meanstrk
If you want proof, do some tests to see which stops you fastest and in the most controlled manner.
If you want proof, do some tests to see which stops you fastest and in the most controlled manner.
I was doing 75 mph on the highway a few weeks ago and had to hit the brakes hard to avoid hitting a deer. 75 mph to stop. Both brakes, HARD. Not once did it ever feel like the back end was going to break loose on me. Now am I saying that there is no possible way? No. I would like to how you feel the back end is easy to loose when braking like you should (straight and on the brakes without locking the rear.) How do you loose the back end?
Those that consider me a douche bag for saying this, well, maybe you should try some advanced courses some time.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 56
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From:
RE: Rear brake, use it or not?
Newbies should learn to use the front brakes to their potential. It seems that the myth that the front brakes are dangerous is finaly dying, but being replaced with the diametricaly opposed opinion that the rear is useless.
Anyone ever see a factory race bike without a rear brake? Watch A WSBK or GP race. When the camera angle allows, you will see these guys working the rear pedal. It requires a deft touch, but really helps a rider get his bike set up for a turn. IMHO, correct usage is an advanced skill.
Anyone ever see a factory race bike without a rear brake? Watch A WSBK or GP race. When the camera angle allows, you will see these guys working the rear pedal. It requires a deft touch, but really helps a rider get his bike set up for a turn. IMHO, correct usage is an advanced skill.
RE: Rear brake, use it or not?
ORIGINAL: PlayfulGod
+1
ORIGINAL: Blue Fox
Stopping with the front and rear brake in a straight line stops you the quickest in the most controlled manner. That's exactly the point of this thread. Even in an emergency braking situation, MSF and Advanced MSF teach to use both front and rear brakes during all stops, as well as emergency stops..........even at elevated speeds.
I was doing 75 mph on the highway a few weeks ago and had to hit the brakes hard to avoid hitting a deer. 75 mph to stop. Both brakes, HARD. Not once did it ever feel like the back end was going to break loose on me. Now am I saying that there is no possible way? No. I would like to how you feel the back end is easy to loose when braking like you should (straight and on the brakes without locking the rear.) How do you loose the back end?
Those that consider me a douche bag for saying this, well, maybe you should try some advanced courses some time.
No one ever called or assumed anyone to be a douche bag first off. And yes, I taken advanced classes a plenty (Keith Code's Superbike School, Level I graduate, MSF and Advanced MSF course graduate, Track day attendee and race-school graduate from the local track.) - but me listing classes I've taken only shows that I'm trying to gain credibility for my comments, which I don't need. It's a proven fact that braking with both brakes in an emergency situation stops the bike quicker, and in a more controlled manner than the front brakes alone. Whether it be 25 mph or 70.
ORIGINAL: meanstrk
If you want proof, do some tests to see which stops you fastest and in the most controlled manner.
If you want proof, do some tests to see which stops you fastest and in the most controlled manner.
I was doing 75 mph on the highway a few weeks ago and had to hit the brakes hard to avoid hitting a deer. 75 mph to stop. Both brakes, HARD. Not once did it ever feel like the back end was going to break loose on me. Now am I saying that there is no possible way? No. I would like to how you feel the back end is easy to loose when braking like you should (straight and on the brakes without locking the rear.) How do you loose the back end?
Those that consider me a douche bag for saying this, well, maybe you should try some advanced courses some time.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,327
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From: Meridian, MS
RE: Rear brake, use it or not?
ORIGINAL: mountainrider
Newbies should learn to use the front brakes to their potential. It seems that the myth that the front brakes are dangerous is finaly dying, but being replaced with the diametricaly opposed opinion that the rear is useless.
Anyone ever see a factory race bike without a rear brake? Watch A WSBK or GP race. When the camera angle allows, you will see these guys working the rear pedal. It requires a deft touch, but really helps a rider get his bike set up for a turn. IMHO, correct usage is an advanced skill.
Newbies should learn to use the front brakes to their potential. It seems that the myth that the front brakes are dangerous is finaly dying, but being replaced with the diametricaly opposed opinion that the rear is useless.
Anyone ever see a factory race bike without a rear brake? Watch A WSBK or GP race. When the camera angle allows, you will see these guys working the rear pedal. It requires a deft touch, but really helps a rider get his bike set up for a turn. IMHO, correct usage is an advanced skill.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 56
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From:
RE: Rear brake, use it or not?
Or ...groove the pads to reduce locking tendencies. Got Dremel?
ORIGINAL: woodyracing
Ditto, if using the rear brake while braking actually slows you down, your not using the front enough. I dont know anybody that uses the rear brake on the track for actual braking. Most i know that use it at all let a bit of air in the line so it doest just lock up.
ORIGINAL: mountainrider
Newbies should learn to use the front brakes to their potential. It seems that the myth that the front brakes are dangerous is finaly dying, but being replaced with the diametricaly opposed opinion that the rear is useless.
Anyone ever see a factory race bike without a rear brake? Watch A WSBK or GP race. When the camera angle allows, you will see these guys working the rear pedal. It requires a deft touch, but really helps a rider get his bike set up for a turn. IMHO, correct usage is an advanced skill.
Newbies should learn to use the front brakes to their potential. It seems that the myth that the front brakes are dangerous is finaly dying, but being replaced with the diametricaly opposed opinion that the rear is useless.
Anyone ever see a factory race bike without a rear brake? Watch A WSBK or GP race. When the camera angle allows, you will see these guys working the rear pedal. It requires a deft touch, but really helps a rider get his bike set up for a turn. IMHO, correct usage is an advanced skill.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
From: SJ
RE: Rear brake, use it or not?
I believethere was an episode of Superbikes that did a big thing on a track riding class, and the biggest point that they made was that using front AND rear brake is absolutely neccesary if you want to go as fast as you possibly can. 90% of braking from the front and 10% from the back. That doesn't mean use 90% of the front and 10% of the rear braking capacity. It means that When using both to their full potential 90% of your brakeing will come from the front and 10% from the rear. So if your not using the rear your losing 10% of your braking ability which means you will have to slow down earlier to enter a turn.
The same goes for on the street in emergencies.
The same goes for on the street in emergencies.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,680
Likes: 1
From: PA
RE: Rear brake, use it or not?
As for losing the rear, they say (according to MSF) if the front locks up, then just ease up and reapply, but if the rear locks up...keep it locked. The rear tends to sway side to side and if you attempt to let go of the brake when it's not lined up with the direction you are heading, it will cause your rear to head off a new direction and cause an interesting situation.
As for the MSF course, apparently the trainers learned slightly different things. For instance, my trainers taught when make a turn, push left, turn left. Meaning to push forward on your handlebars to make the front wheel turn right to get you in to your lean. I spoke with someone that took the class in a different location (but same county) and the trainer said...no don't push forward on the handlebars, but push down towards the ground, (which means you are not countersteering now). I wouldn't be surprised if different trainers learned differently.
As for the MSF course, apparently the trainers learned slightly different things. For instance, my trainers taught when make a turn, push left, turn left. Meaning to push forward on your handlebars to make the front wheel turn right to get you in to your lean. I spoke with someone that took the class in a different location (but same county) and the trainer said...no don't push forward on the handlebars, but push down towards the ground, (which means you are not countersteering now). I wouldn't be surprised if different trainers learned differently.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From:
RE: Rear brake, use it or not?
ORIGINAL: meanstrk
I said the fastest route", not the "only" route. You can lose the bike in gravel no matter if you are on the brakes or not, so that's not really a valid arguement, now is it? I use to teach the MSF course and carry an ERC card in my wallet. I am also a Keith Code School graduate and track day veteran. The reason I stopped teaching MSF was because most accidents don't happen in parking lots or 25 MPH, but rather, out on the road at elevated speeds, and I wanted to teach advanced rider skills. In those courses, we show how easy it is to lose the rear end when on the brakes hard and we train to use the front to it's potential. If you are hard on the brakes in an emergency stop, there is very little weight on the rear of the bike and in those instances, it's useless. There is nothing wrong with using the rear brake when riding in a casual manner, but if that's ALL you use, or is what you rely on most of all, then it's a bad habit to get in to. The most effective braking tool you have on a sport bike is the front brakes, not the rear. If you want proof, do some tests to see which stops you fastest and in the most controlled manner.
Those that consider me a douche bag for saying this, well, maybe you should try some advanced courses some time.
ORIGINAL: Blue Fox
????
I lowsided at 70 mph thanks to the front brakes locking up from gravel.
How would you lowside by using the rear brake? I mean, if some douchebag is using the rear brakes while leaning in a corner, then yeah, he'll probably crash.......but this douchebag also should have never thrown his leg over the bike in the first place.
So, since you made the inarguable declaration that you should trash the rear brakes..........how, sir, do you lowside a bike when riding like a sane, MSF educated rider, when using the rear brakes properly?
ORIGINAL: meanstrk
The rear brakes are the fastest route to a lowside that exists.
The rear brakes are the fastest route to a lowside that exists.
I lowsided at 70 mph thanks to the front brakes locking up from gravel.
How would you lowside by using the rear brake? I mean, if some douchebag is using the rear brakes while leaning in a corner, then yeah, he'll probably crash.......but this douchebag also should have never thrown his leg over the bike in the first place.
So, since you made the inarguable declaration that you should trash the rear brakes..........how, sir, do you lowside a bike when riding like a sane, MSF educated rider, when using the rear brakes properly?
Those that consider me a douche bag for saying this, well, maybe you should try some advanced courses some time.
except for one thing....i will purposely lowside if it will save me from flipping-front or highsiding...or being that guy that stuck his head through the back of an 18 wheeler....