Peace and love...

 

Hey guys, if this is going to get offensive and hateful it will be locked. PM me if there are any concerns, please. We usually allow leeway, but there is no need for us to continue a thread that is bothering people. I have been looking atthis threadas a debate, but that doean't mean it is in good taste. Let me know.

 

Its a good and bad thread in a sence of personal barriers...
everyone works hard in a different way brains and brawns.

 

I think what I don't like most is that someone will say something negative and associate it a specific race, religion or anything. I particular don't care for a behavior to be associated with a race. Neither the color of someone's skin nor the shape of their eyes defines a person. They are just a person. It is their education, be it from their upbringing, schooling, peers or personal experience that influences a person's belief. When you apply a behavior to an appearance or belief structure, you are applying a scarlet letter, a Star of David (**** marking of Jews) of sorts on that person. The only difference, is that person can NEVER remove it, it is every bit a part of them that cannot change.

When someone makes a prejudice statement, there is always someone there that will be thinking you know…I've been thinking the same thing and then they'll recount a story that happen to them, thus affirming a negative attitude and making a baseless claim to seem more like truth. Other people in the area will hear that and say you know…they are right. Whenever you say things like "your kind" or "those people", you are perpetuating a pejorative with the purpose of reaffirming your believe that "those" people are bad. You are giving the seeds of hate water and light to allow it to grow.

I feel it's wrong to tell someone that prejudice is in their head or that they are mistaken. You are just belittling their feelings for something that they have grown up with. You can not begin to understand it until you have experienced it to the level they have. To live it like they have.

Sportbike riders are careless. Those types of riders are dangerous. Do you like hearing negative things about you or your type of people? Do you get mad when someone says crap like that? Then why in the world would you do the same thing to someone else? Why would you want to make so many other people feel like crap?

Seriously, business owners, you open a business in a less fortunate society, you are going to get crime no matter what race is predominate in that community. The only difference, if it's a race that you are familiar with (same race yourself) your experiences of good will far outweigh the bad. You really don't hear how a particular race held the door open for you or even assisted you after a crash or took good care of you at a restaurant. You might even think of that person as the exception. But you have a negative experience and it sticks with you for life and if all you ever heard was negative about them, you are more prone to reaffirm negative feelings that were instilled in you by others. Also keep in mind that many other cultures, haggling is usually the norm for business. (kind of like Monty Python's The Life of Brian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm7K4VM_7Rg)

I am just as guilty of all of this as any of you. I'm just recognizing in myself that is wrong and I’m trying to change it. Like everything else, practice makes perfect. I don't expect to change the way you feel. It takes a conscious effort to do and you must want to do it. That's not up to me to do. I’m just trying to counteract some of the negative experiences you may have. Give reason where feelings are clouding judgment. I feel that I've probably done a lousy job, based on the posts that were made, but maybe I can cause one person to pause and think….maybe the negative experience is the exception and not the other way around, then I will have been successful.

The golden rule folks: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It exists in probably every single religion: Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, etc.

I wish people would stop burying their head in the sand and hoping it will all go away.

Thanks to RCR, Bumblebee and all others who commented and gave time to this issue. Thanks to the moderators for not locking or deleting this thread

 

Being in this country illegially has nothing to do with race or country of origin. The U.S. is governed by the rule of law. If some is going to break the law to enter this country illegially they are going to exploit our country and take advantage of it every step along the away. Have a few people in this country illegially is no big deal, when there are 20 million here illegially it overburdens the system and hurts citizens and legal residents.

 

I agree with that, but not 100%. Although, I felt the core conversation branched out beyond just illegals and more on overall hatred that is spread by prejudice, whether it is related to sex, race or religion. We go under the assumption, that if someone steals, someone can't speak English all that well (or at all in some cases, at all) that they are illegal.

Not all people are here under their own free will, though a lot are. I do believe that there is a possibility illegals put a strain on parts of our infrastructure, like our healthcare and insurance (or lack there of in terms of auto accidents), but they also give back too. Unlike many people in our welfare system (which IS a strain), many illegals come here actually work at jobs that we wouldn't want (I really have no interest in picking mushrooms) as well as ones we do (construction). Some of them have fake SSNs and pay taxes (including medicare) which mean they are putting back into the system. The same can't be said to about someone who IS a U.S. citizen who sits on their duffs watching their big screen TVs while pulling in checks from our welfare system. IMHO those that choose not to work are a bigger drain than those that do.

Illegals in someways help our economy. They are willing to work for lower wages, which in turns means lower prices for the average consumer. People are concerned that these people are stealing jobs that we could work at. I can certainly see that if it's a job a US Citizen would want those jobs. If US Citizens worked at all of these jobs 1 of 2 things will occur: Prices will rise or the jobs/business move out of the US.
[blockquote]"The United States is a source and destination country fro thousands of men, women and children trafficked for the purposes of sexual and labor exploitation. Women and girls, largely from East Asia, Eastern Europe, Mexico and Central America are trafficked to the United States into prostitution. Some men an women, responding to fraudulent offers of employment in the United States, migrate willing - legally or illegally - but are subsequently subjected to conditions of involuntary servitude at work site or in the comercial sex trade." U.S. Department of State (http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/82902.pdf)
[/blockquote]
Do you feel these individuals are under the same type of situations?

An infant is brought here illegally when their parent(s) come here illegally. He/She lives here for 21 yrs before this is discovered. Do we deport this child to a country they know nothing about? What if you were that child? I feel less strong about this then I do with someone that is caught crossing the border. I feel there needs to be some social responsibility. But how do you get that? I don't have an answer.

Just to be clear, my personal feelings about many subjects are very gray about a lot of areas because there's always an exception. I don't see a lot of black and white situations. I'm having trouble formulating an absolute opinion about any of this. On one hand, I would like to see everyone follow the law. If they are here illegally, then they should go back home. But if we put forth legislation that forceable does this, how will it negatively affect our economy? The letter of the law is not always fair. There are too many different factors that I feel if we toss in more legislation to deal with these matters

 

Really, this is what people forget. But the flip side is that they lower wages because they are willing to work for less. The problem with that is that the U.S. does not exist in a vacuum, we import oil and many everyday household goodsand those countries don't care about our wages, they want their money.

The decline in the middle class of this country has created alot ofthree types of people. First being the rich that get richer, and the poor that can't figure out how to become middle class and the middle class that is squeezed because they want all the crap they see on TV but really can't afford it thus leading to finacial problems and poverty.

The work ethic of many illegals is second to none. What they lack are skills. The second or third generation of these people will be the salvation of this country, the mix of the education of the U.S. with the drive and motivation of their immigrant parents. The landscape of America will be different, and in the meantime the 'white folk' may get mad because they have to read spanish or korean, but your choice is either fight to maintain supremecy through hard work or become a second class citizen.

So either stay in school, work like a dog to get you Masters or PhD, do without all the toys until you are financially liquid or risk having your kids work for a Mexican, Korean, Cuban, Canadian, Martian, Klingon or whatever bosses that will screw with them because of their light skin or round eyes.

But America was made great by hard workers, if they don't speak English, then so be it, I'll just learn Korean, klingon or whoever else happens to have what I want.

 

Thanks Fishfryer for elaborating on the subject. Even though a lot of crap comes out of me, it doesn't necessarily come out very well. I have trouble getting my thoughts and feelings down. It usually ends up sounding like I'm strongly for or against something, when most of the time, I'm middle of the road. This happens a lot when I try to put myself in other people's shoes.

For the record:
[ol][*]I refuse to learn Klingon. I maybe a geek, but there is no need to stereotype myself anymore! [8D][*]I might consider learning Korean if I care enough to try and find out where I came from. I did take 2 years of Spanish and the only real thing I remember is:
¿Qué importa (What does it matter...or in my mind...Who cares)
[/align][*]I have no problems with people hating people for the sake of hating people...just as long as you are an equal opportunity hater.
[/ol]

 

My korean is aweful, but phonetically this is all I know:

Mayk ju seit byong. --- give me three (or five) bottles of beer.

Ahn yo ah se oh. -- it has been a long time.

so I guess if my Bartender gets fired for cheaper labor from Korea I will be OK as long I drink beer quickly before it gets warm and I already know where the bathroom is..

 

What I'm going to say next can very well be defined as violating the forum rules and I do so knowingly, but without malice or intention of harming anyone, but done merely as an educational purpose.

My ex-wife's uncle was a U.S Army Ranger during the Vietnam War and gave me a little bit of background on a term that is generally used as a racial slur. I just took a look and found a definition in the urban dictionary related to this term.

[blockquote]Gook
A term used to describe Koreans. Gook is still a controversial slur. Some Koreans may take it as a joke but some may take as a serious racial slur.

The history behind it is that during the Korean war, an American approached a Korean. The Korean did not understand the American, instead he pointed at him and called out "Mi Gook" which means "America" in Korean. The American then mistakened the Korean and thought the Korean was refering to himself as a "gook." After the Korean War, American started to refer to Koreans as Gooks for short term thinking it was a short name for Korean.

There are many different stories where "gook" came from such as korean foods or HanGOOK[/blockquote]