I agree with you. Except maybe for the carb thing.

Another thing to think about is the payment and insurance on a new bike. Way more than a used/payed off one.
And what happens if you decide you don't really like to ride all that much? You just took a way bigger hit than buying a $2000 F3 outright.

But buying a newer bike is no excuse for not doing your research or checking out the bike for issues. You should have someone help you look at it if you don't know what you're doing.

 

This is kinda what I mean. Why does it mean a person has more dollars than sense?

Let's take displacement out of the debate: is a '04 Ninja 250 a smarter buy for a new / young rider than a '13 CBR 250?

I do have a personal stake in this, tho not what some ppl may think. A friend is very interested in taking up riding and I was thinking of bringing her along to the dealer when I go up next time and show her the CBR250r. She also has enough cash to walk out the door with any 600 in the dealership but wants smaller (she never knew they made 250cc sport biked till I mentioned it).

 

Yes.

 

It's a saying that I've heard around the shop for years. It refers to a person that is wealthy and spends their money in ways that go against common sense. Plus it's a play on words. (sense-cents)

If the bike in question is of small displacement, then the more power the better. Those things need all they can get to get out of harms way. No worry about too much there.

 

Ah but it doesnt mean they wont teach it to you.

Some one who is learning pro-tools for sound engineering will also learn apple logic.

Programmers learning java will still learn C, C+ and C++

Was your first car brand new? Or newer (if so lucky you).

With Carbs theres no FI light or codes, its all reading the bike and learning to overcome the symptoms and diagnosing the systems. I feel that carbs help teach proper troubleshooting technique and forces you to keep a constant flow of steps. (just looks at all the people who rip apart their carbs to find their tank dirty or the fuel filter needs to be replaced etc.). Yes I agree that FI is nice and carbs are old tech but its safe to assume a guy who has had a carb'ed bike will have a better time at learning FI than the inverse.

A strong foundation in the basics with a healthy understanding in your roots builds long term knowledge and deep understanding.

 

I am definitely biased towards old tech. Just look at my bike list below. That doesn't include the old Honda Dio scooter and my '79 kwacker dirtbike I had, nor my 30+ year old ATV or early 80's Arctic Cat sled, nor my 15 year old car. I've never owned anything new. In fact the scooter was the newest thing I owned and when I got it (MY2000, got it in 2010), it was not running and needed some serious TLC.

I've also never had alot of cash either, so old stuff was all I could afford.

That being said, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I still wouldn't buy new (just perfect my old). Fact of the matter is I am still learning, we all are. You might graduate from your MSF class or maybe just logged your millionth mile on a bike after 30 years of riding, but we are all still learning something. Anyone who disagrees is either delusional or lying.

When you take on an activity that potentially puts your health at risk, I think its important to know how every aspect of that machine operated. I'm not saying everyone should read their service manual before you hop on the bike, but the basis should be there. If the Apollo 13 astronauts didn't have an understanding of how their machine operated, they would have probably died up there.

How this all traces back to old bike vs. new bike? IMO, the old bike is a more mechanical operation. Someone with a basic understanding of mechanics can understand all the parts that make it operate. One can certainly understand a new vehicle to, but instead of plugging it into a laptop, you need a stethoscope and a brain to figure it out. I'll take my carbs over FI, right hand over ABS, analogue over digital.

 

She will probably not want to mess with repairing a bike, or want to worry about any mechanical failure while riding. In her case, new or a year old would be the way to go. She can get her hands dirty with maintenance items as they come due.

 

i would still advise starting old. i did start on a 95 F3. it taught me a lot. and believe me - that thing felt like a rocket to me - someone who had no previous street experience. i think that if you are someone who wants to ride sportbikes - an older 600 is the best choice vs a new 600 or new standard. the suspension isn't crazy - but it's still sporty. and i wouldn't want someone starting out who would be prone to panicking to have too good of brakes. your s1kr might stop better than your f3 did - but it's not like your f3 couldn't stop at all. brakes are light having too much motor. imagine if a noob started out with motogp carbon brakes.... it wouldn't end well.

add to that the cost of an old bike is less of a sting factor when you'll inevitably drop your bike.

and a new rider needs to learn some maintenance. the bike almost needs to break down on them. they need to learn how to bleed the brakes. they need to learn how to break down the carbs. they need to know how to replace bulbs and work with wiring harnesses.

while your newer bikes systems may not seem too complicated to you - they would be too much for most new riders to chew on. but being a motorcyclist is being able to fix (at least some things) your bike. if you refuse to work on a motorcycle - then you would want a newer bike. but getting your hands dirty as a motorcyclist is a big part of it


the simpler the bike - the better. the cheaper - the better. the less powerful (in all aspects - motor - brakes - suspension) - the better

 

So Conrice, in the example of a 04 Ninja 250 vs a 13 CBR 250, you would still go with the Ninja?

Reason i started this is because of a post that hit me a little wrong in another thread. To me, just because someone is young or inexperienced doesn't mean a new bike is a foolish decision. Getting too powerful a bike, like going from riding Huffys to a new zx10 /cbr1000rr / s1k, yeah i would question the person's sanity. Strictly on a power vs experience level.

But i aslo would question whether a person with no experience wrenching a bike buying one that's due for a valve check too. New bikes don't necessarily mean a person stops doing their own maintenance until the warranty runs out. A responsible rider will still have to adjust the chain tension, clutch / brake tension / check the oil / ect. Hell financing something for the first time in their life is a good experience too, especially something non-essential. Builds credit history and while defaulting will bust up their credit, it won't mean going homeless like defaulting on a mortgage.

 

More nimble and responsive isn't necessarily a good thing for a new rider. In fact just the opposite, which is why I think supersports are a bad choice for new riders.

Modern sportbikes respond so forcefully to rider inputs that it's very easy for an inexperienced rider to overdo it. If you panic in a turn and grab a handful of brake on a less responsive bike, you might scare yourself and soil your drawers. Do it on a bike like your new one, and you'll be asphalt surfing. Same thing with throttle and steering.

And tiptoeing around a bike you're scared of isn't how you develop riding skills. You need to be able to explore things like throttle response, traction control, and how weight shifts during braking, on a bike that lets you make mistakes. This is why spending a season or two on a 250 or 500 will almost invariably result in you being a better rider a year later than the person who started out on a supersport. You learned how to ride, while he was focused on learning how to survive.