Have heard on the radio Harley Davidson received tax dollars. The papers and some on line info states they requested public tax money. Neither give a dollar amount on money received or requested. I've not owned a Harley simply because I like the most bang for the buck. I would on the other hand enjoy a Harley from the 30's or 40's when they really were the best in the world. But then in the 80's they walked away and quit being a competitor. Then they whined and got import bike restrictions. Some of that I try to understand, last american motorcycle maker and stuff like that plus the economy had been poor for quite some time. But this time they either squandered all they have gained or have become corrupt with what has been given them, or both. Out here eight out of ten bikes on the road is a Harley, and not a cheap one in the bunch. Most acting tough and arrogant, not all but many. An attitude that seems to please Harley.
But keep in mind I have been harassed by a few Harley riders on their $30,000 bikes and when I open up my 1983 Honda GL650I I quickly out distance them, granted they were not V-Rods but still the most bang for the buck kicks in. So my bottom line is I have quite a disdain forming for Harley Davidson. They are a company that quits, whines, will not compete, and fires Buell their only real engineer, then takes tax money
making us pay for a Harley Davidson even if we do not want one. The new proud American motorcycle standard.Makes me a bit sick. But wait
what about that fairly new Victory company that also make american motorcycles. Hmmm..... not listed as wanting restrictions or taking
tax money. VICTORY.... seems like a great name and a true American
company. Seems to me Harley has lived to a grand old age and has learned nothing, nothing at all. Just my thoughts. Any others.

 

I don't get it either. The state of Wisconsin is giving them a $25M tax break. That money is coming out of someones pocket. Warren Buffett has shored them up with $300M. HD has done it to themselves. They have allowed the dealerships to ruin the business. They jacked up prices on already over priced bikes by creating a fake shortage. MSRP of $14,999 (for a clunker) was run up to $20,000 to $22,000. All well and good for a time until it bites you in the butt.

I say clunker because out the door it would cost $22,000 for a bike that has a lawnmower carburetor, weak cam and restrictive muffler. For another $7.500 on top of that, the dealership would put HD parts on before it leaves the dealership, to get it running right. Then comes another $5 to $10,000 for the chrome. OK, now you had a $35,000 bike with some kind of resale but wait, what's going on with the HD loans. There were 4 divisions of Harley, HD, Buell, MV Agusta and HDFS. Well guess what was HDFS doing? Remember those ballooning mortgage loans? That's exactly what HD was doing.

Due to the scare tactics of the fake shortage, people were buying up HD's like "they were going out of style". The market got flooded and now there is a drop in price for used bikes. These people with $35,000 loans are now finding that their bikes are now worth less then their loans. They are not paying the loans off, just like the mortgages and foreclosures. There are currently so many HD being repossed that they are flooding the uses HD market. Due to the over abundance of used bikes, in new condition, at a lower price, people are election to buy used rather than new. This has caused a shortage in new bike sales. So much that, HD has either shut down production at certain plants or limited it.

HD sell more stuff than bikes also. Sticker, hats, shirts and things like that are the real money makers.

Lets talk about my Yamaha (Star) Stratoliner S I bought used w/1,100 Mi. for $8,200. When I look at it, I can't help to think that it is where HD should be after 100 years. I great cruiser with 110 hp at a good price. I don't even have to get all dressed up in scary black close with skulls on them to go for a ride.

 

Did'nt know about the Wisconsin tax break or the Warren Buffett connection. That makes it even worse. Enjoy your Yamaha. One of
my other bikes is a 1982 Suzuki GS1100L 4 cyl,8 valve. With a little TLC
and tweeking on the carbs when you hit the gas and reach about 5k rpm it will make you grab onto the grips and force your eyes to focus on the road. Now if at that point a new Harley kept up with my 28 year old bike or better yet passed me. Then I'd say WOW check that out and into a Harley dealership I would go. But like I stated even my old GL650 out preforms the best of most of what harley makes. I've also wished they would branch out and instead of buying other companys. Design and put out their own in line four or six in a manner like BMW. As is the only time I've been in a harley dealership in the past 25 years was to buy a pair of sunglasses and a pair of gloves. Even that was before they put harley davidson on everything. It's shameful, from what I can tell they did it all to themselves.

 

Won't comment to much on the tax issue as I am so pissed off with the US Gov. for giving my childrens and grandchildrens future away to the banks and other large institutions.
I agree, Harley has let technology pass them by and seem to have no interest in modernizing their bikes. They've had a few opportunities to get on board with the VRSC Vrod, Buell, MV Agusta, etc, and have let every one of those opportunities slip away. I've not been in a dealership that didn't bad mouth all those bikes even if they were sitting there on the showroom floor.
I ride a VRSCB, love the bike for cruising, but Harley dealers make no effort to push the bike, with a Porsche designed motor by the way, to the public and instead pushes early 19th century technology.
They snooze, they lose.................

 

I'm glad you like your V-rod. Did you know your V-Rod and the Goldwing share the same roots? In the early 70's Honda bought a Porsche engine, studyed it, then designed and buildt their own. It became the 1975 Goldwing. I own a 76 wing, what wonderful smooth power. Honda has improved and redsigned that orginal engine up to this day. For cross country travel nothing is better. That should have been Harleys goal.
The Porsche engine in your bike is for sure one to take pride in. As old as Harley is it would be great to say designed and buildt in the USA. I just think it's sad harley had to go out of country to have designed and build
the only true new design motorcycle in decades.

 

What I underlined above are links.

HD canned what was their best hope of staying in the younger market with the best Buel ever. It would have been a great bike if they put it into production. What they did instead was can it, rather than sell it to a competitor.

It blows me away every time I think of HD and where they are today. The have done nothing new. OH, WAIT A MINUTE! They have developed a counter balanced engine. But, they only put it in 1/2 of their bikes??????

Even BMW is getting better at coming out of the dark ages with new designs.

Oh well, HD can just keep selling half finished bikes with crappy welds, at twice the money as other bikes and the HD club keeps buying them.

Two days ago I ran into a guy I use to ride with years ago. He paid $21,000 for a new 2002 HD that now has 2,200 miles on it. I put 2,200 miles on my Strat the first 2 months I owned it. He told me that he misses the comfort that he had on the metric bikes. But now he can say "I HAVE A HARLEY."

I have had HD riders ask me why I ride a junk rice burner and not a Harley. When I ask them what kind of car the drive they say a Toyota or some other non-USA make. I don't get it. It's the diehard Harley market that is a stumbling block for the company. They need to redirect the masses and take control of their future.

I thought the V-rod would have redirected more HD enthusiastic but instead they hated it.

I do point a lot of the blame on the dealerships. They are not helping maters much.

 

FWIW, Harley didn't get Federal handouts, what they (and a number of other companies) got were loans from the Federal Reserve at a time when short term financing to fund day to day operating expenses had dried up in the US. Again, FWIW, most of the money lent out by the Fed has been repaid, so American taxpayers haven't been hurt by this. As to the Wisconsin tax breaks, the link provided above says that in fact Harley turned down the states offer of tax breaks because they wouldn't agree to the strings that were attached to the offer. Now I'm not now nor have I ever been a Harley fan- I see them as being primarily being fashion accessories. I also think that shutting down Buell and selling off MV Agusta was extremely shortsighted on their part. I also question their one trick pony philosophy- if the s**t hits the fan and gas prices jump to $12 a gallon and/or the Feds mandate new emissions standards or fleet MPG standards, is Harley in any position to adapt to these new realities. Does anyone doubt Honda's abilities to change course overnight if it becomes necessary. Anyhow, I nevertheless don't think that Harley's request for loans from the Fed nor the offer of tax breaks from Wisconsin really means anything of significance.

 

What I saw was this one about the tax break (link). Big difference between September and November clip. Your correct, they turned it down in Wisconsin, but I guess other states like PA are offering a similar deal.

Harley has the ability to meet new EPA and MPG standards now. The liquid cooled V-Rod motor and EFI bikes and there now. They just don't push them.

Every time I walk into a dealership they say,"Oh you don't want that, take a look at this one here." They show me a $35,000 Screaming Eagle something bob.

They sill have not tackled the fundamentals of a motorcycle like getting the rear tire to track the front tire, that's why the wallow. The best part is that no one cares and they will be doing the same thing for the next 100 years.

 

Even if it was just a loan, what a disgrace, and to me as a disgrace, it is of significance. What more of a testament of disgrace could be stated than to be so successful, run through so much money than put your hand out for our money. I don't think Honda, or Kawasaki, put their hand into the fed pot,
Ever, and both ran plants in the USA during the same time frame. Sorry,
I also see their whining, complaining, quitting, firing their best people that
could have prevented needing money from us in the first place as matter of
significance. I guess what bothers me is most their efforts being wasted on image. When times got a little competitive got wimpy and requested
money under the table months ago that the public never knew about.
For someone who wants to be proud of what little industry is left in this country that we can call our own, Harley's choice's and actions are a disgrace,
thats significant.

 

Anyone who can make Harley owners/buyers go and buy them over more modern equivalents has a marketing and sales plan that is clearly genius. I'm not sure what the mystique is about Harleys - maybe the heritage, being all-American and all that. IMO that's all they have going for them, and even that's questionable.
Somebody tell me what other product worldwide would sell with outmoded technology. It's like trying to sell an old 386 computer from the 80's in todays world at 3x the price of an up to date unit...........pfffft
Defies logic for me.
And if someone lent them/gave them tax dollars, they clearly have no intention of using the money for development.
Maybe someone in Govt owns Harley shares....................