case welding
#11
11-01-2009, 06:42 PM
#12
11-01-2009, 06:43 PM
#13
11-01-2009, 11:26 PM
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That's a nasty one but could be fixable. I've worked as a welder in the past myself and I can tell you I'd personally never touch that while on the bike, I'd require it torn down. Considering the location and the need to get at the break from all angles to weld it properly and the fact that it's a snug fit there without access to all sides I doubt you'll find a certified welder who'll do it on the bike, and if you did I dunno if I'd trust their judgement. You can't just weld the sides you can reach and hope that's enough, he'll need to weld every angle and likely have to grind down a few of the welds for clearance issues. Might look worst in that pic than it is though so dunno, take it somewhere and ask them to look at it in person, you never know.
#14
11-02-2009, 05:11 AM
I appreciate it, thank you for the input.
My main concern is getting the case SEALED. I want to get that peice back in there and get it welded so the engine is all sealed up and ready to run again. There are 3 other motor mounts on the engine holding it firmly in place, so I'm not TOO worried about the STRENGTH/FUNCTION of the broken mount after it is welded.
If it is absolutely necessary to retain the function of this mount, its quite easy to loosen the other mounts and just pivot the engine forward, making the weld area very accessible. I know its in my best interests to retain the function of the mount, but is it plausible to just seal this break and disregard its mounting function?
Also, the broken peice fits nice and snug into the area it broke off of. It seems like if the peice can just be put back in, and someone runs a weld around it (with adequate accessibility), I should be in okay shape, right? (I hope!)
Any other thoughts?
My main concern is getting the case SEALED. I want to get that peice back in there and get it welded so the engine is all sealed up and ready to run again. There are 3 other motor mounts on the engine holding it firmly in place, so I'm not TOO worried about the STRENGTH/FUNCTION of the broken mount after it is welded.
If it is absolutely necessary to retain the function of this mount, its quite easy to loosen the other mounts and just pivot the engine forward, making the weld area very accessible. I know its in my best interests to retain the function of the mount, but is it plausible to just seal this break and disregard its mounting function?
Also, the broken peice fits nice and snug into the area it broke off of. It seems like if the peice can just be put back in, and someone runs a weld around it (with adequate accessibility), I should be in okay shape, right? (I hope!)
Any other thoughts?
Last edited by Chrisct713; 11-02-2009 at 05:17 AM.
#15
11-02-2009, 02:19 PM
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I tend to agree with Hangfire...
You might find someone that will tackle that , but they will be reluctant to do it on the bike ...
With breaks like that , that have actually opened the cases up(broken through) , most welders will want the cases apart so they can weld the inside too ...
Welding from the outside only in that position , they will not know how successful the depth of the weld is , or if anything gets into the inside of the cases during the welding process
... but I spose you can try to get it done 
Sorry to sound negative , but that's how these sorts of repairs are done usually ...
Good luck ...
You might find someone that will tackle that , but they will be reluctant to do it on the bike ...
With breaks like that , that have actually opened the cases up(broken through) , most welders will want the cases apart so they can weld the inside too ...
Welding from the outside only in that position , they will not know how successful the depth of the weld is , or if anything gets into the inside of the cases during the welding process
... but I spose you can try to get it done Sorry to sound negative , but that's how these sorts of repairs are done usually ...
Good luck ...
Last edited by CBRclassic; 11-02-2009 at 06:12 PM.
#16
11-02-2009, 04:39 PM
I understand thats the most efficient way of going about this repair.... unfortunately however, my budget won't support the work it will take to rip this motor down to weld that piece properly. I'm going to try and get it welded the best I can from the exterior of the case and see how it turns out.
As far as the function of the mount goes, do you think I'll be okay by not mounting the engine from it after I get it welded? There are three other motor mounts on the engine to hold it in place... is this idea even plausible?
As far as the function of the mount goes, do you think I'll be okay by not mounting the engine from it after I get it welded? There are three other motor mounts on the engine to hold it in place... is this idea even plausible?
#17
11-02-2009, 06:20 PM
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Well , look , if I were you and did not have the money or time for a full repair , I prolly would attempt the external one like you are doing ..
Having just said that.....
If you can get a good welder? to fix her externally , he should be able to do a pretty strong weld from one side ...So in this case, I would bolt the engine up to it once done ...(for cetain!)
The MAIN thing that I would check after the external welding, would be the sump for debris and chit that may come through during the process !
....flush the engine good afterwards
....change the filter and whack new oil in her ...
and again ...good luck mate ...
Having just said that.....
If you can get a good welder? to fix her externally , he should be able to do a pretty strong weld from one side ...So in this case, I would bolt the engine up to it once done ...(for cetain!)
The MAIN thing that I would check after the external welding, would be the sump for debris and chit that may come through during the process !
....flush the engine good afterwards
....change the filter and whack new oil in her ...
and again ...good luck mate ...
#18
11-02-2009, 07:23 PM
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As far as not using that bolt. Your not entirely understanding the purpose of that bolt I think. Modern bikes use the engine itself as a "stressed member", which means that the engine itself actually becomes part of the load bearing frame. Leaving any of the engines mounting bolts outs will reduce your frames structural rigidity and lessen your frames integrity. Not to mention that each bolt is there to support it's share of the engine and frame load, leaving any one out will increase the stress on the other three and increase their chance of breakage or warpage. The bolt's not just there to "hold the engine in place". You need to get it fixed in such a way that the bolt hole is usable and secure.
As far as welding it as is, you may get more room by pivoting the engine forward but you'll still have to remove the head, at the very, very least. For one, as was previously mentioned, applying enough heat to the area to weld it will absolutely destroy the head gasket. In fact, part of the broken off piece seems to seal against the gasket itself, if the gaskets not ruined by the process I'd be amazed. Second, it looks like the break enters the wet areas of the engine, they will need to be able to make sure the inner chambers are secure as well as the outer ones, as well as making sure no debris gets in the engine from the welding process. At this point making sure the welder has easy access to weld is secondary to the above two facts. I'm really not trying to be negative here, but the more info you have when you go talk to the guy the better off you'll be. Good luck man.
As far as welding it as is, you may get more room by pivoting the engine forward but you'll still have to remove the head, at the very, very least. For one, as was previously mentioned, applying enough heat to the area to weld it will absolutely destroy the head gasket. In fact, part of the broken off piece seems to seal against the gasket itself, if the gaskets not ruined by the process I'd be amazed. Second, it looks like the break enters the wet areas of the engine, they will need to be able to make sure the inner chambers are secure as well as the outer ones, as well as making sure no debris gets in the engine from the welding process. At this point making sure the welder has easy access to weld is secondary to the above two facts. I'm really not trying to be negative here, but the more info you have when you go talk to the guy the better off you'll be. Good luck man.
#19
11-02-2009, 08:45 PM
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From the pictures, it looks like the engine mount is the least of your worries, it looks like the frame is pretty bent as well. If thats the case, you've got a really bad situation. Not to be mean, but if it is indeed bent, you might as well part the bike out. If the bike has a salvage title, there is no way the bike will pass inspection, nor should that bike be on the road. As hangfire said, the engine is actually part of the integrated structure. If that mount is tweaked, the other mounts surely saw some stress as well. I would be amazed if that bike tracked true.
Hopefully you didnt spend a ton of money on the bike, because it will take a lot of money to fix. You might be able to turn it into a stunt bike and sell it, but I doubt it will ever be road worthy without a new frame.
Hopefully you didnt spend a ton of money on the bike, because it will take a lot of money to fix. You might be able to turn it into a stunt bike and sell it, but I doubt it will ever be road worthy without a new frame.
#20
11-03-2009, 03:12 AM
The bike was involved in an accident where it slid on the right side, the frame slider got caught on a small lip/curb, the slider broke off, tweaked the lower part of that section of the frame and broke that peice of the motor off. I got the bike as a project and hoped to build a decent track bike. I tore it all down and other than this little motor-mount set back, I'm almost done. I'm so close! No other parts of the bike have any significant damage, and the few parts that did, have been replaced. Every other square inch of the frame is untouched, unscratched, and straight. I'm going to see what I can do about dropping the engine forward slightly to make that cracked area more accessible and get it externally welded the best I can. The piece fits back in very tightly, and if the welder has good access to it, I don't see why it can't be securely welded. I also don't see any possibilty of small particles falling into the case since the piece fits snugly back into the hole with no gaps. I'm not in denial here, I understand what you guys are saying- I know that this isnt the BEST way to go about this repair, but I just wanted to get some input about giving the EASY way a shot before committing to investing A LOT more time and money. I've come a long way, I just really hope it works out!
Every time I have a problem with one of my bikes I jump on here and rely on you guys for help- your combined experience is priceless when it comes to diagnosing/accessing problems with these bikes. Not to mention, you guys don't waste any time in responding. Due to your experience, enthusiasm and commitment to riding, I have more trust in the people on this forum than I do in most of the shops around my area. Thanks everyone for your help, it is VERY much appreciated.
Every time I have a problem with one of my bikes I jump on here and rely on you guys for help- your combined experience is priceless when it comes to diagnosing/accessing problems with these bikes. Not to mention, you guys don't waste any time in responding. Due to your experience, enthusiasm and commitment to riding, I have more trust in the people on this forum than I do in most of the shops around my area. Thanks everyone for your help, it is VERY much appreciated.
Last edited by Chrisct713; 11-03-2009 at 03:23 AM.