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What Gas do you run?
I Just got my F4i 2 weeks ago...So I have only filled it up once. I always ran Premium w/ NO Ethanol (usually Shell) in my old Bandit. And I am doing the same thing w/ my F4i (except now there is a nice BP station close to my house that has no ethanol in their Premium gas.
So....Do you run low octane in your F4i (since thats all the manual calls for) or do you run higher octane? Also, Do you run ethanol mixes, or no? |
Made for 86+ so I use 87 octane. Anything higher than what its made for is a gigantic waste of money, imho. The owners manual also states that you can use up to 10% ethanol by volume.
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I always use premium. It's a 20 cent difference between fill ups. if you cant afford that you cant afford a toy imo.
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Originally Posted by teko1020
(Post 789525)
Made for 86+ so I use 87 octane. Anything higher than what its made for is a gigantic waste of money, imho. The owners manual also states that you can use up to 10% ethanol by volume.
This is a write up that a local Shop did about 18 months ago. ETHANOL A component of gasoline that is seeing increased use is ethanol. A member of the alcohol family, it is produced by vegetable matter (not just corn). Ethanol has three physical characteristics that distinguish it. First, it has 30% fewer BTUs (British Thermal Units) per pound than gasoline. This means that a gallon of ethanol produces less power in an undiluted comparison with a gallon of gasoline and a corresponding reduction in power as percentage of its addition to gasoline (eg: 10% ethanol produces 3% less power with the same jetting). The E85 blend (15% gasoline, 85% ethanol) produces documented losses of mileage of 30-36%. Second, the detonation suppression characteristics of ethanol and its cousin methanol allow it to be used to raise the effective octane of gasoline it is added to. Gasoline blenders will use this to build the higher octane numbers of mid-grade and premium gasoline. Ethanol’s reduced cost per gallon makes this very attractive. E85 is generally $0.50-0.60 cheaper per gallon than even the 10% dosed gasoline. Third is the affinity of ethanol for water. Gas line de-icer is made of either methanol or isopropyl alcohol, chemical relatives of ethanol. This means water in the air will be drawn into the fuel. This accelerates the fuel’s degradation and decreases combustibility as explained in section 2. While the exposure to air is reduced in fuel-injected applications, it still is a factor. Combined with the alkaline reactivity of ethanol, fuel system components can suffer. One other aspect of the ethanol content is just that. When the pump says “may contain up to 10% ethanol,” it may legally contain up to 20% by law, allowing for “error.” At this point in history, the use of ethanol is primarily a politically driven issue. The logic of the use of ethanol in the current format is flawed. a) It costs more to produce a gallon than it sells for. b) It accelerates the deterioration of gasoline in storage, even with the use of a stabilizer. c) It reduces the power and mileage in all conventional applications. To allow the proper use of ethanol, compression ratios, cam timing, ignition timing, and jetting/fuel mapping need different configurations. While cams, ignition, and fuel can be adjusted on the fly, compression ratios are not easily or quickly changed. Having run alcohol-burning combinations for 25 years, this is an empirically determined fact. One of the other less-publicized aspects of the ethanol debate is the fact that there is a $0.54 per gallon tariff on imported ethanol. Just ask your elected representative why this is. Politicians can’t regulate politics much less be trusted to properly regulate the economics and engineering aspects of normal lives. The ethanol debacle is continuing proof of that. The final pinprick in the balloon of ethanol is the fact that last fall, we switched from BP gas with ethanol to Shell gasoline without ethanol and our gasoline problems have virtually disappeared, to our great delight. So, if there is a choice – DO NOT USE ETHANOL-BLENDED GASOLINE! Only pure regular gasoline (read the pump carefully). A good way to avoid problems such as this is to be certain you buy gasoline at a name-brand station. The neighborhood convenience store buys gas from a broker, so you have no idea what it is. That gasoline is purchased by price, not specification Remember- always buy brand name fuels, and avoid ethanol, to reduce the potential entertainment that accompanies poor quality gasoline. |
Why ask the question if you won't use it? I figured you were trying to get other peoples opinions to make up your mind on what you would end up using. I was just repeating what the manual says. It's not required but its an option you have. I use the minimum because I don't feel like pissing my money away. There have been countless tests that disprove the notion that higher octane is better. You can argue that "It's only 20 cents more." Multiply that by the number of gallons you put in and how many times you fill up over an amount of time and I bet you can sit there and think of other things you wish you had that money for. I put 3 gallons in every time I fill up... That's 60 cents pissed away if I bought premium just because "bigger must be better" - each time.
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I was just curious if anyone had any info that perhaps I hadn't heard yet. Or if anyone has had any fuel related problems/experiences, etc.
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I use premium 90% of the time. The only time I go mid grade is if I know I'm going to be making a long, highway trip, and won't need "the best". But yeah, ^ 35 cents, yeah, shell it out cheapos.
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Dont get anything lower than 95 in the UK, used to run 99 on my KTM. 95 is currently $1.56 per litre. 99 is around $1.66 per litre.
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At most gas stations around here we have 3 choices: 87, 89, 92. I go with 89. Tried 87 and 92 and cant tell a difference in power but read in a previous post that 92 actually decreases horsepower in the f4i and the manual says 86 so i figured I would meet halfway in the argument but lean towards the lower grade of gas being sufficient.
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93...cause...why not? Its only going to be .50 more per fill up...
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i always use 93. i just thought it was the best option i guess not
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I run with 87 all the time, unfortunately EVERY gas station around has 10% ethenol. When I travel south in my van I use 92 and I get 80 more miles per 20ish gallons. I usually get about 20 miles to a gallon on 87, so 4 extra miles per gallon cost me 20 cents more, but saves me about 7 cents per mile in the long run. I know... it ain't very "scientific", but I reset mt trip odometer everytime I fill up, then do the math.
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Originally Posted by redzintimidator
(Post 789645)
93...cause...why not? Its only going to be .50 more per fill up...
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I always run 93
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Originally Posted by RojerLockless
(Post 789534)
I always use premium. It's a 20 cent difference between fill ups. if you cant afford that you cant afford a toy imo.
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I always use premium it cant hurt plus i have my power comander programmed for it...
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Yeah if you can afford to own a bike then i dont think that a few bucks more is going to kill ya
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Originally Posted by Elfling
(Post 789661)
Srsly, I always kind of go "huh?" when people talk about the expense of premium. Even on my car tank, it's only a few dollars difference.
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i always put premium. on premium i fill up every 120 miles. i put in 87 once and had to fill up again in 80 miles. i didn't do anything different in my routine, just wanted to see what would happen. after that tank, i filled it back with premium and got another 120. i guess my bike has gotten used to the best ;).
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Originally Posted by teko1020
(Post 789695)
This is why people find themselves in dept. Because they think about the now instead of the future. The bike is made for 86+. There is not going to be a lick of difference between filling up with 87 or 89 or 93. The only difference is going to be a smaller wallet at the end of the riding season. Just the other day I was at the store and I needed some mayonnaise for potato salad. There was a 32 oz. jar for $2.98. Right next to it was a slightly bigger jar, 40 something... cant remember, for $7 plus some change. Would you buy the 40 oz. jar just because it holds more and its only gonna cost you a few extra bucks? Ya it may be "just this much more" but add up all of those "this much mores" and you could have saved yourself "that much more." I honestly don't care what other people put in their bike but why question people who are smart with their money?
40 cents difference in a tank of gas per week for my bike is 21 dollars at the end of the year. That's not budget breaking. If it *is* budget breaking for you, I question whether you're financially solvent enough to be owning a bike. |
I fill up 2 maybe 3 times a week. 3 gallons each time. 60 cents extra each fill up. 1.8x52=93.6... I'll stick with 87 and still get the same performance as your 93, thanks.
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And that's fine :) Whatever works. It's going to be one of those eternal six of one, half dozen of another questions.
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teko, the grocery store example was horrible lol. Not to be rude. The numbers you gave me in apparent what you'd buy, maybe 15oz for 2.98 lol.
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Well, my experience states that the 87 runs nearly equal to the 93 in my F4i. I normally get 130ish miles per tank. (that's taking into account the error from my non-stock gearing.) I've tried this on multiple occasions and have noticed no discernable difference between the two fuels beyond price. For all of those nit-pickers out there, I use Chevron gas at all times (I have an account with them). Personally, I say use what you can afford and makes you happy.
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Ok everyone breath....now this is an eternal arguement.
Some believe higher octane=better gas/better performance. I say it is placibo effect. I fill up with 87,perfer no ethanol, every 160 miles or so. Bike runs great and have tried 93 with no changes in performance. All fuel is the same, the difference between brands is additives and better storage practices/ higher turnover in stock. Gasoline at the pump is stabil for at least one year after manufacturing Rennen I promise that you did not lose 40mpg simple from octane switch, octane does not have the ability to alter the amount of energy produced in burning the fuel. It inhibits pre-ignition. So unless your bikes engine is "dieseling" uncontrollably I say you were getting on the trottle harder to "check" performance. |
w/e. everyone has their own opinion, and it's not going to change. people should do what they want to make themselves happy.
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Originally Posted by cman9toes
(Post 789762)
Ok everyone breath....now this is an eternal arguement.
Some believe higher octane=better gas/better performance. I say it is placibo effect. I fill up with 87,perfer no ethanol, every 160 miles or so. Bike runs great and have tried 93 with no changes in performance. All fuel is the same, the difference between brands is additives and better storage practices/ higher turnover in stock. Gasoline at the pump is stabil for at least one year after manufacturing Rennen I promise that you did not lose 40mpg simple from octane switch, octane does not have the ability to alter the amount of energy produced in burning the fuel. It inhibits pre-ignition. So unless your bikes engine is "dieseling" uncontrollably I say you were getting on the trottle harder to "check" performance. some people are so ignorant |
Originally Posted by cageless
(Post 789774)
Finally someone who knows higher octane does not = quality/ performance!
some people are so ignorant |
Originally Posted by Zero1080
(Post 789735)
teko, the grocery store example was horrible lol. Not to be rude. The numbers you gave me in apparent what you'd buy, maybe 15oz for 2.98 lol.
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I have a1997 CBR F3. I always run premium. is this bad? better? or the same?
I wanna see proof cuz I dont really believe that premium can make the bike worse... |
Originally Posted by jpanside@gmail.com
(Post 789784)
I have a1997 CBR F3. I always run premium. is this bad? better? or the same?
I wanna see proof cuz I dont really believe that premium can make the bike worse... -it's not going to make it worse -it will probably in the very long run help with engine quality -there is probably no performance boost -so if you feel like using it, use it. Easiest way is to try the different levels of gas and determine for yourself. With my cars, I noticed a big difference in my Celica, not so much in my Jetta. |
I typically run 87 on the street and 93 at the track. My truck runs on 93 so whatever I have left over in the cans I just dump into my truck.
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The way a high octane can reduce performance in a vehicle is as follows...
Oil when refined or "cracked" seperates much like oil and vinger in a jar. With oil it seperates out by the number of carbon atoms in the chain of compounds. (i.e. octane=8) The lower the carbon count the more volatile the fuel.(diesel has far more carbon atoms, propane has far less) So the refiners mix the subtance octane with heptane to use the otherwise useless heptane. This is where the ratin partly comes from.(additives to reduce not has since added their influence to octane rating) The high the ratig the more resistant to ignition the fuel is. So in simple terms it takes more spark/heat to ignite 93 octane vs 87. So in a carbed bike with no ecu the bike may not ignite all the fuel causing back fires and dieseling after shut off. That is fuel science in a nut shell |
Originally Posted by cman9toes
(Post 789812)
The way a high octane can reduce performance in a vehicle is as follows...
Oil when refined or "cracked" seperates much like oil and vinger in a jar. With oil it seperates out by the number of carbon atoms in the chain of compounds. (i.e. octane=8) The lower the carbon count the more volatile the fuel.(diesel has far more carbon atoms, propane has far less) So the refiners mix the subtance octane with heptane to use the otherwise useless heptane. This is where the ratin partly comes from.(additives to reduce not has since added their influence to octane rating) The high the ratig the more resistant to ignition the fuel is. So in simple terms it takes more spark/heat to ignite 93 octane vs 87. So in a carbed bike with no ecu the bike may not ignite all the fuel causing back fires and dieseling after shut off. That is fuel science in a nut shell |
I can't believe this is an argument. The engineers, ENGINEERS, say 86 or higher. If you have a degree equivalent to theirs or you manufacture your own motorcycles, I'd go with what those guys tell you.
You wont get better mpg's, you won't get more performance (unless you have some mods and a tune for them), you WILL have less $$ in your wallet. Go with 87 oct, you'll be ok. Hasn't failed me yet. |
I use 85 octane with up to 10% ethanol ~ no problemo. I don't ride slow either, lol.
Edit: But I'm picky about the brand; only Shell gasoline. |
Ethanol simply put is great if you are in the business of growing sugercane.(you make lots of money)
In blends it does nothing more than reduce fuel economy. This goes back to the previous post of reduced performance. Ethanol has a much higher octane rating. For maximum efficency the compression in the engine would need to be much higher. (Like a diesel or alcohol burner race car) Basicly ethanol blend is all politic with greater cost for the public with little to no enviromental benefit. With out the proper engine tuning ie compression even the E85 vechiles require 50% more ethanol fuel than it would need if it were pure ethanol. I prefer no ethanol because I see it as buying a soda at McD's and having the cup packed with ice. |
Originally Posted by cman9toes
(Post 789916)
Ethanol simply put is great if you are in the business of growing sugercane.(you make lots of money)
In blends it does nothing more than reduce fuel economy. This goes back to the previous post of reduced performance. Ethanol has a much higher octane rating. For maximum efficency the compression in the engine would need to be much higher. (Like a diesel or alcohol burner race car) Basicly ethanol blend is all politic with greater cost for the public with little to no enviromental benefit. With out the proper engine tuning ie compression even the E85 vechiles require 50% more ethanol fuel than it would need if it were pure ethanol. I prefer no ethanol because I see it as buying a soda at McD's and having the cup packed with ice. |
I think the difference is a wash between the two.
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Holy Moly! There are still the same exact new threads since last time I visited here. lol I use the low grade gas.
Mike |
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