Ethanol
#1
06-30-2007, 10:26 PM
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Ethanol
Was wondering if the f4i engine can take and if anyone has been using ethanol for fuel. Not many gas stations in this country have them, but for those who may live by one, can the bike run on it? I know its 105octane which can't hurt. Maybe this is a stupid question...i'm coming from a GMC Syclone owners perspective.
#2
07-01-2007, 01:19 AM
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RE: Ethanol
I haven't read the owners manual so I don't know for sure, but as long as the rubber fuel lines and injectors are designed for ethanal it won't hurt the engine...The owners manual will probably tell you...Every gas station locally has 10% ethanel blend in their89 octane, some have ethanal blend only. (What they do is take the 87 octane fuel and add 10% ethanal which increases the octane rating to 89) I live in Iowa theEthanal Capital of the world.) Ethanal shouldn't harm anything on a newer bike in moderation.......Don't let the high octane make you think it's better...All an octane rating is, is a measurement of the burning charactistics..I can't really explain it, but the higher the octane the slower the fuel burns.....Which allows you to advance the timing without the engine knocking.(detonation)......
Ethenal is actually less efficient per gallan of fuel...It actually takes more fuel to make the some amount of power.....On cars 02 Sensors adjust fuel trims by adding more fuel (keeps the injecotrs open longer)..I don't know how that would work on a bike, butIIRC the BTU rating of ethanel is like 10000-20000 BTU's less per gallon than gasoline.
Ethenal is actually less efficient per gallan of fuel...It actually takes more fuel to make the some amount of power.....On cars 02 Sensors adjust fuel trims by adding more fuel (keeps the injecotrs open longer)..I don't know how that would work on a bike, butIIRC the BTU rating of ethanel is like 10000-20000 BTU's less per gallon than gasoline.
#3
07-01-2007, 12:04 PM
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RE: Ethanol
ORIGINAL: CBRrider01
I haven't read the owners manual so I don't know for sure, but as long as the rubber fuel lines and injectors are designed for ethanal it won't hurt the engine...The owners manual will probably tell you...Every gas station locally has 10% ethanel blend in their89 octane, some have ethanal blend only. (What they do is take the 87 octane fuel and add 10% ethanal which increases the octane rating to 89) I live in Iowa theEthanal Capital of the world.) Ethanal shouldn't harm anything on a newer bike in moderation.......Don't let the high octane make you think it's better...All an octane rating is, is a measurement of the burning charactistics..I can't really explain it, but the higher the octane the slower the fuel burns.....Which allows you to advance the timing without the engine knocking.(detonation)......
Ethenal is actually less efficient per gallan of fuel...It actually takes more fuel to make the some amount of power.....On cars 02 Sensors adjust fuel trims by adding more fuel (keeps the injecotrs open longer)..I don't know how that would work on a bike, butIIRC the BTU rating of ethanel is like 10000-20000 BTU's less per gallon than gasoline.
I haven't read the owners manual so I don't know for sure, but as long as the rubber fuel lines and injectors are designed for ethanal it won't hurt the engine...The owners manual will probably tell you...Every gas station locally has 10% ethanel blend in their89 octane, some have ethanal blend only. (What they do is take the 87 octane fuel and add 10% ethanal which increases the octane rating to 89) I live in Iowa theEthanal Capital of the world.) Ethanal shouldn't harm anything on a newer bike in moderation.......Don't let the high octane make you think it's better...All an octane rating is, is a measurement of the burning charactistics..I can't really explain it, but the higher the octane the slower the fuel burns.....Which allows you to advance the timing without the engine knocking.(detonation)......
Ethenal is actually less efficient per gallan of fuel...It actually takes more fuel to make the some amount of power.....On cars 02 Sensors adjust fuel trims by adding more fuel (keeps the injecotrs open longer)..I don't know how that would work on a bike, butIIRC the BTU rating of ethanel is like 10000-20000 BTU's less per gallon than gasoline.
#4
07-01-2007, 11:35 PM
RE: Ethanol
ORIGINAL: CBRrider01
I haven't read the owners manual so I don't know for sure, but as long as the rubber fuel lines and injectors are designed for ethanal it won't hurt the engine...The owners manual will probably tell you...Every gas station locally has 10% ethanel blend in their 89 octane, some have ethanal blend only. (What they do is take the 87 octane fuel and add 10% ethanal which increases the octane rating to 89) I live in Iowa the Ethanal Capital of the world.) Ethanal shouldn't harm anything on a newer bike in moderation.......Don't let the high octane make you think it's better...All an octane rating is, is a measurement of the burning charactistics..I can't really explain it, but the higher the octane the slower the fuel burns.....Which allows you to advance the timing without the engine knocking.(detonation)......
Ethenal is actually less efficient per gallan of fuel...It actually takes more fuel to make the some amount of power.....On cars 02 Sensors adjust fuel trims by adding more fuel (keeps the injecotrs open longer)..I don't know how that would work on a bike, but IIRC the BTU rating of ethanel is like 10000-20000 BTU's less per gallon than gasoline.
I haven't read the owners manual so I don't know for sure, but as long as the rubber fuel lines and injectors are designed for ethanal it won't hurt the engine...The owners manual will probably tell you...Every gas station locally has 10% ethanel blend in their 89 octane, some have ethanal blend only. (What they do is take the 87 octane fuel and add 10% ethanal which increases the octane rating to 89) I live in Iowa the Ethanal Capital of the world.) Ethanal shouldn't harm anything on a newer bike in moderation.......Don't let the high octane make you think it's better...All an octane rating is, is a measurement of the burning charactistics..I can't really explain it, but the higher the octane the slower the fuel burns.....Which allows you to advance the timing without the engine knocking.(detonation)......
Ethenal is actually less efficient per gallan of fuel...It actually takes more fuel to make the some amount of power.....On cars 02 Sensors adjust fuel trims by adding more fuel (keeps the injecotrs open longer)..I don't know how that would work on a bike, but IIRC the BTU rating of ethanel is like 10000-20000 BTU's less per gallon than gasoline.
#6
07-04-2007, 10:49 PM
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RE: Ethanol
E85 has a stoich air:fuel ratio in the 9.7 range and straight gasoline is 14.7:1.What that means is the engine will run way too lean without some form of tuning to richen up the mixture. The ECU most likely only has authority to adjust the fuel mix(assuming it has EGO feedback) several percent. As much as a 25% change may be needed.
Also, octane does not refer to the rate of burn or flame speed of a fuel. It describes a fuel's resistance to autoignition. Methanol is ~115 motor octane, but it has a flame speed that is faster than gasoline. High octane is great if you need it, but it will cost power if you don't.
Also, I saw a post by someone on a private forum I'm on where they examined every aspect of E85 as a fuel. It turned out that it is less efficient as a fuel, uses more energy input to produce than gasoline, and actually costs more per mile on average. Food for thought.
Also, octane does not refer to the rate of burn or flame speed of a fuel. It describes a fuel's resistance to autoignition. Methanol is ~115 motor octane, but it has a flame speed that is faster than gasoline. High octane is great if you need it, but it will cost power if you don't.
Also, I saw a post by someone on a private forum I'm on where they examined every aspect of E85 as a fuel. It turned out that it is less efficient as a fuel, uses more energy input to produce than gasoline, and actually costs more per mile on average. Food for thought.
#7
07-06-2007, 12:27 AM
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RE: Ethanol
ORIGINAL: 65ShelbyClone
E85 has a stoich air:fuel ratio in the 9.7 range and straight gasoline is 14.7:1.What that means is the engine will run way too lean without some form of tuning to richen up the mixture. The ECU most likely only has authority to adjust the fuel mix(assuming it has EGO feedback) several percent. As much as a 25% change may be needed.
Also, octane does not refer to the rate of burn or flame speed of a fuel. It describes a fuel's resistance to autoignition. Methanol is ~115 motor octane, but it has a flame speed that is faster than gasoline. High octane is great if you need it, but it will cost power if you don't.
Also, I saw a post by someone on a private forum I'm on where they examined every aspect of E85 as a fuel. It turned out that it is less efficient as a fuel, uses more energy input to produce than gasoline, and actually costs more per mile on average. Food for thought.
E85 has a stoich air:fuel ratio in the 9.7 range and straight gasoline is 14.7:1.What that means is the engine will run way too lean without some form of tuning to richen up the mixture. The ECU most likely only has authority to adjust the fuel mix(assuming it has EGO feedback) several percent. As much as a 25% change may be needed.
Also, octane does not refer to the rate of burn or flame speed of a fuel. It describes a fuel's resistance to autoignition. Methanol is ~115 motor octane, but it has a flame speed that is faster than gasoline. High octane is great if you need it, but it will cost power if you don't.
Also, I saw a post by someone on a private forum I'm on where they examined every aspect of E85 as a fuel. It turned out that it is less efficient as a fuel, uses more energy input to produce than gasoline, and actually costs more per mile on average. Food for thought.
#8
07-06-2007, 01:08 AM
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RE: Ethanol
Forced induction engines love E85 like they love methanol injection. That is really the only practical use I see for E85; affordable unleaded race fuel. My next project car is going to be a high power turbo 4cyl with MegaSquirt injection and if E85 is ever available here, I'd like to have a separate map just for ethanol. Your Syclone would like it, I'm sure. So would my SVO.
The fact that many people on here report running a 12 or 12.5:1 CBR on anything from 87 to 91+ pump gas without rattling leads me to believe that E85 doesn't have much to offer these bikes without fairly serious power modifications and tuning. There are also debates on forums across the net as to whether or not normal EFI fuel systems are capable of handling E85. Some say yes, some say no, many have no idea one way or the other.
The fact that many people on here report running a 12 or 12.5:1 CBR on anything from 87 to 91+ pump gas without rattling leads me to believe that E85 doesn't have much to offer these bikes without fairly serious power modifications and tuning. There are also debates on forums across the net as to whether or not normal EFI fuel systems are capable of handling E85. Some say yes, some say no, many have no idea one way or the other.
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