Hey everyone. My clutches just recently started to slip. Makes it a real pain to get anywhere even remotely fast haha. Unfortunately, I'm leaving for school tomorrow. Its about a 140 mile trip, mostly highway. I'm hoping the bike makes it.

I was going to try to swap components out of my old motor (clutch condition unknown), but luckily I realized I wouldn't be able to get a clutch cover gasket in time, so I havent even cracked mine open yet.

My manual suggests that a slipping clutch is either
- clutch lifter
-worn discs
-weak springs

How will I know which is the source once the case is open? Is this one of those things where while I'm in there I should replace everything? Are the discs the actual clutches or something else? From what I can tell via the manual I should be able to change the lifter or spring without needing the special tools (center lock nut removal). However is it something where you should just overhaul everything while you're there? This is my first manual anything, so I'm a little unfamiliar with clutches and there workings.

Would it be okay to use any of this stuff froma different motor if its in okay shape?

 

I had the same problem with my old F2 (the clutch would slip at high load), and I fixed it with new springs. You can tell if it's the springs by measuring their free length after removing them--they will become shorter with use. There is a spec length before they have to be replaced. With the friction and driven discs, there is a spec thickness--if they're too thin, they need to be replaced. The steel discs need to be replaced if they're discolored, and the friction discs if they're badly scratched. I don't know about the lifter, but visual inspection should tell you if it's damaged or not.

If you don't intend on replacing the discs, don't remove them. if they are not installed in the exact same way that they were originally in the bike, they will wear faster. If either the friction discs or steel discs are out of spec they both should be replaced, as the old discs will wear as they mate to the new ones.

The easiest and cheapest thing to do is to just replace the springs with stiffer ones. Your local independent bike shop owner can get you a set of springs for $12. The new springs will give you more life out of your old discs. Even if you need new discs, new springs will most likely be needed.

 

The F2 manual doesn't give specs, but the F2 and F3 clutch are interchangeable, so I'd guess the specs are too. Here are the F3 specs:
Spring Length: 1.96" std, 1.90" service limit
Friction Plate: .115-.121" std, .102" service limit

Apparently, the steel driven discs are only checked for warpage. This is done with a feeler gauge on a flat table, and a .012" gauge shouldn't be able to fit under the disc.

Hope this helps. Also, if the clutch in the other bike is in good shape, it should be fine.

 

jtkardel, (IMO) that has got to be one of the best explanations for clutch slipping I've ever read. Just to add to it, if your clutch is slipping (especially in higher gears) it's your fibers. When the steels warp, you'll know it...instead of smooth takeoffs, bike will jerk with ya. Get Barnett springs when you replace everything. The clutch pull will be slightly harder, but as jtkardel pointed out, your clutches will last longer. My RR is drag only so I've gone through some clutch sets in last 13 years LOL...when it comes time to replace them, go with Honda OEM steels and fibers and the Barnett springs. I've ran into problems running EBC and Barnett fibers/steels. Mostly thickness issues compared to OEM. When the thickness starts varying, it changes your clutch stack height and that affects clutch operation ALOT. I've never had any variance with Honda fibers/steels. As mentioned, mike thickness of fibers in other motor and check for warpage on steels. If they check out, change em out and have at it! Good luck.

As a sidenote, don't let not having clutch cover gasket stop you from fixing your clutch problem. I haven't used a gasket in my motors since late 90s (not counting head and valvecover gasket). Make sure all gasket material is removed from both pieces and apply tiny bead of Hondabond #4 on removable piece and install. I've yet to have a problem with leaking. Just be sure bead is extremely small cause the Hondabond will spread when you tighten the cover. If it squeezes out inside the block, it'll eventually end up in your oil pickup screen and that's not a good thing.

 

Okay, I ran into a way bigger problem then I started with. I did a change of oil to regular car 20w-50 to see if it would help with the slipping at all. It didn't/ After driving maybe 2 miles, the bike started tomake a real throaty deep sound, and began to loose power. The ooil light came on for like a second, and the bike died out.

I got a ride home, and immediately drained the oil. Filled it up again with 4 stroke 10w-40. At start up it made the noise for maybe a second, then as soon as the oil cycled, it sounded and felt normal. I only made it a few blocks before the noise came back, as well as the loss of power and stalling. The oil came out of the pan clean, no shavings or anything, but something is obviously wrong with the bike, It sucks because I drained my bank account to get this thing running before school, and the day before its time to leave it gives me problems. I don't even know where to begin with this or what could be wrong. I'm just hoping its nothing too serious.

Thanks for the help with the clutch stuff btw, I'll be checking out those springs asap.

 

After reading this it just got me thinking, I had the stator cover off yesterday and used rtv to seal up that cover. I'm hoping I didnt get too much under the cover and have it end up in the screen. Would that make sense as to the problem? Why would it only do it after a certain point of driving? Where is the pickup screen located? Thanks in advance for the help guys, I don't know what I'd do without you!

 

Rtv isn't as bad as Hondabond at clogging up your pickup, but it definitely could do the job. If you hurt a bearing, most times you won't see the shavings when you just drain the oil. I'm pretty sure the F2 pan is like the 900RR's and has baffles that surround the oil drain hole, preventing shavings from passing with the oil (unless you've really cooked it). Easiest way to check is to remove all lower fairings, remove exhaust, drain oil, and remove oil pan. It helps if you have front/rear stands to get bike off ground higher. Once pan is removed you can check for shavings. They look like tiny specks of gold. When you crawl under motor, you can't miss pickup, it's staring you right in the face. If it's like the 900, it simply pulls out. Make sure you keep up with Oring (sometimes it stays in case). If it's got gunk in it, flush it out from the top side down with whatever you have to flush it with (high pressure water hose is fine). Then you'll probably have to pick around in there with an awl or something to get rest out (gunk likes to hide up behind the cover).
If you find shavings, do not start motor again. If you caught it early, crank might can still be saved. It's gonna require teardown and fresh bearings, possibly repair or get another crank, and case flushed. It's not a big deal to do. Bearings generally run about 7 to 9 bucks a half (for some reason, Honda sells them in halves instead of complete bearing). 4 rod bearings, and probably 5 mains.
If you don't find any shavings, clean the pickup if it had gunk in it. If pickup didn't have gunk in it, I'd remove oil pump and check it for shavings or grooves/worn rotors. It's pretty easy to remove and doesn't require motor removal. Just remove clutch basket and it's staring you right in the face. Remove drive sprocket(10mm socket), then 3 bolts (10mm socket) if I'm not mistaken, and it pulls straight out. Disassemble (1 bolt, 10mm socket) and examine rotors. Get a manual and pay attention to how you re-install rotors. There's a small pin that goes through shaft and engages one of the rotors. My info on bolts and socket sizes may be off, it's been a while since I've had an F2 apart. But the F2, F3 and the 900RR are almost identical inside. Hope that helps and Good luck! Hopefully there's no gold in your pan!!! LOL

 

Wow I really appreciate the help. Could the 20w-50 alone cause any problems, or is it more likely related to the rtv/other issue?

 

I honestly can't answer that for you. I'm sure you aren't the first to use 20W50 in a motorcycle. The oil pumps used in bikes are very efficient at what they do. They also have very tight clearances and I'm sure would have a hard time pushing thicker oil. It's odd that the problem started just when you put in the thick stuff. On the other hand, if that WAS the reason and you only rode it short distance, you'd think the problem would be fixed when you went back to lighter oil. It's not something you want to 2nd guess. I'd still drop the pan, check out the pickup, and possibly the oil pump as well. It's not an area you want to go wrong LOL. I was downloading a manual for F2 but it's almost quitting time and I have to lock up/check machines and stuff. I'll download it tomorrow. I want to double check the info I've already given you regarding removing oil pump and pickup.

 

Not to be an idiot, but I'm looking at the manual and I was wondering what clutches were the steel and what were the fibers. According to my service manual theres clutch plates with larger and smaller ids and then friction plates. Which ones are which? Thanks again.