Wax or Lube?????
#11
09-15-2008, 05:17 PM
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RE: Wax or Lube?????
ORIGINAL: 900FighterRR
Not to be a stick in the mud but I did some research a while back after hearing from a buddy of mine who used to race about the problems associated with WD40. What I found is that contrary to popular belief WD-40 can be quite destructive to O and X ring chains. Once it penetrates into the sealed area of the chain, it dissolves the petroleum out of the grease, leaving the clay binders and other non lubricating additives that stabilize high speed lubes. It is a super penetrant and chain wax and lube will not penetrate these areas as effectively after you clean with WD40. Even if they do, they will be degraded by the soluables in the remaining WD40. What's left in the bearing is essentially dirt that cakes up, causing acceleraed wear. Without the petroleum, rust will also be an issue because WD40 can not maintain stability at the speed, friction, and heat levels that our chains see and will soon evaporate and turn to nothing. Essentially WD40 is like syntheitc oils in car engines, once you use it you can't go back because regualr oils will not be able to adhere to the metals in your engine. Wd40 may work well at cleaning, but its what you can't see that causes the problems. I know it forces out moisture, but really moisture will never penetrate the O or X rings because there is petroleum there and also they are sealed rings. I know this is an age old debate but WD40 was inventied in the 40s as a circuit board cleaner, and it was never meant for high speed lubrication. You may never see a failure associated with its use and so what if it shaves a few thousand miles off your chains life, its just good to have the info to make a decision. Again, I mean no offense in my disagreeing with you, just throwing out what I know. Enjoy the rest of the season.
Not to be a stick in the mud but I did some research a while back after hearing from a buddy of mine who used to race about the problems associated with WD40. What I found is that contrary to popular belief WD-40 can be quite destructive to O and X ring chains. Once it penetrates into the sealed area of the chain, it dissolves the petroleum out of the grease, leaving the clay binders and other non lubricating additives that stabilize high speed lubes. It is a super penetrant and chain wax and lube will not penetrate these areas as effectively after you clean with WD40. Even if they do, they will be degraded by the soluables in the remaining WD40. What's left in the bearing is essentially dirt that cakes up, causing acceleraed wear. Without the petroleum, rust will also be an issue because WD40 can not maintain stability at the speed, friction, and heat levels that our chains see and will soon evaporate and turn to nothing. Essentially WD40 is like syntheitc oils in car engines, once you use it you can't go back because regualr oils will not be able to adhere to the metals in your engine. Wd40 may work well at cleaning, but its what you can't see that causes the problems. I know it forces out moisture, but really moisture will never penetrate the O or X rings because there is petroleum there and also they are sealed rings. I know this is an age old debate but WD40 was inventied in the 40s as a circuit board cleaner, and it was never meant for high speed lubrication. You may never see a failure associated with its use and so what if it shaves a few thousand miles off your chains life, its just good to have the info to make a decision. Again, I mean no offense in my disagreeing with you, just throwing out what I know. Enjoy the rest of the season.
those points you make based on qualified info are correct ... to a degree.
I only was speaking from experience with the 35-40 chains that I have replaced over the years on a few different rides mate ..
but then I am old school and fixed somewhat in his ways
I have never thrown a chain nor had one wear out without a million miles on it
Cleaning chains is a bit hit and miss no matter what you do ... Kero has a lot of similar problems but is still widely used... unfortunately
moisture will never penetrate the O or X rings because there is petroleum there and also they are sealed rings.
but at the end of the day ..
you have to use something to try to get **** out ready for new lube... water based anything wont do it, as it wont get past nor into anything where it counts...
whatever anyone choose's to do as far as cleaning goes ....re-lubing well afterwards I think is the key to keeping a chain on your ride in good shape..
#12
09-15-2008, 05:48 PM
Senior Member
RE: Wax or Lube?????
Well put my Australian friend. Regular maintenance does the trick on just about anything. I will admit I get a little caught up in the details sometimes and its easy to overlook what simply works. As long as no one tries to us the WD40 as a pure lube then it really should be of no concern. I will default to your extreme level of experience on this one and we both walk away the wiser. If its worked for you in the dusty *** outback then I think that it will work for just about anyone. I also never ever get my chain wet so I am a bit ignorant to that effect on my chain.
#13
09-15-2008, 06:01 PM
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Posts: n/a
RE: Wax or Lube?????
ORIGINAL: 900FighterRR
Well put my Australian friend. Regular maintenance does the trick on just about anything. I will admit I get a little caught up in the details sometimes and its easy to overlook what simply works. As long as no one tries to us the WD40 as a pure lube then it really should be of no concern. I will default to your extreme level of experience on this one and we both walk away the wiser. If its worked for you in the dusty *** outback then I think that it will work for just about anyone. I also never ever get my chain wet so I am a bit ignorant to that effect on my chain.
Well put my Australian friend. Regular maintenance does the trick on just about anything. I will admit I get a little caught up in the details sometimes and its easy to overlook what simply works. As long as no one tries to us the WD40 as a pure lube then it really should be of no concern. I will default to your extreme level of experience on this one and we both walk away the wiser. If its worked for you in the dusty *** outback then I think that it will work for just about anyone. I also never ever get my chain wet so I am a bit ignorant to that effect on my chain.
and you were right , but yer , sometimes in life and as far as methods go..., if it ain't broken don't try to fix it There are but a few advantages of being 1,298 years old ....
and experience is one of the better ones my friend..
I am sure you know your stuff as well
#15
09-15-2008, 09:27 PM
#17
09-15-2008, 10:35 PM
RE: Wax or Lube?????
WD-40 is diluted solvent in a water base, and it shouldn't be used on, well, anything except household hardware like hinges, etc. The small amount of lubricant in WD-40 is very light weight and not persistant enough to cling to moving parts. Especially high speed chains. I know it is a product with a lot of cultural cred, but so does duct tape and would you use that on your bike? Sure, I know a lot of people use it to clean their chains without any problems. The people that do any chain maintaince probably don't let the chain and sprocket wear enough that the solvent from the WD makes much of a difference. Roller chain is some strong, durable material and the solvent in WD is so diluted that it probably isn't going to really damage the chain, but it is definetly not helping it beyond pushing off built up dirt and grime.
#18
09-15-2008, 11:50 PM
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Posts: n/a
RE: Wax or Lube?????
My goodness this WD40 thing is really over the top
Another chemists report hmmmm
A few million or so mechanic's might well argue that one mate
MI900RR , all including myself are only talking about using it to help clean the chains mate ...
not lube them...
Haleluya........ 
To assist with cleaning ............
Another chemists report hmmmm
WD-40 is diluted solvent in a water base, and it shouldn't be used on, well, anything except household hardware like hinges, etc.
MI900RR , all including myself are only talking about using it to help clean the chains mate ...
not lube them...
but it is definetly not helping it beyond pushing off built up dirt and grime.
To assist with cleaning ............
#19
09-16-2008, 01:20 AM
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RE: Wax or Lube?????
Now I'm feeling how MT Wallet felt like about his charging issue when people were giving him advice in different directions all of the time. I'm in the same direction as DBRclassic, I just want to find something to strip the grime off and then either lube or wax it. I do know that WD-40 is a powerful grime cleaner but I dont want it to damage my chain. I have been using a chain cleaner from a bike shop that works ok but not well enough for chain wax.
All I want to know is what will protect my chain better wax or lube.
Thanks everyone for your input so far
All I want to know is what will protect my chain better wax or lube.
Thanks everyone for your input so far
#20
09-16-2008, 01:40 PM
RE: Wax or Lube?????
I should clarify, WD-40 is a really bad cleaner. It won't work well because it is water based. Wax and petro lubes just repel the water, and the water will also cause parts to rust. The solvent can also damage x-ring and o-ring seals if left on long enough. I've been using bean clean. Can get it here: http://www.chaindrain.com/
It's completely safe for x-rings and o-rings, it's made from soybean oil so way less toxic than solvents, and it works like a ****.
It's completely safe for x-rings and o-rings, it's made from soybean oil so way less toxic than solvents, and it works like a ****.