Hi there, this is my advice to you...

First off, contrary to what other people say here, you are not destined to crash. You have to be willing to accept the risks in order to ride and be accountable for any consequences. However, you control your destiny to some extent and its very possible to ride urban without crashing. You just have to be defensive and proactive and not ride like a jackass. Just assume the worst is about to happen and get prepared to avoid it.

This is learned behavior. And take miles and the right attitude.

In the meantime you need to get comfortable on a bike. The best and safest way to do this is head for the dirt.
Get yourself a cheap dirt bike and a friend with a truck and GO RIDE. Go slide around and crash into bushes, and feel the bike in a slide and learn how much braking will wash out the front tire and how to steer with the rear brake in the safety and beauty of the outdoors.

ALL of it will translate into confidence on your road bike. You'll have a blast. And you'll know how the bike reacts when it or you is off kilter, making you better enabled to avoid accidents.

Remember, you ride a bike because its fun, and you are cut from different stuff than the cagers around you.

 

yoflacoand Drekkykyou are both idiots! Your restating what I said and then your telling her to get a dirt bike. You DUMBASS. She will CRASH at some point 99.99 percent of riders out there either have crashed or will crash and to say it once again buy as good of gear as you can because YOU WILL CRASH. As for the Dirt bike comment getting used to your front wheel washing out as you say. ARE YOU KIDING ME! Do you own or have you ever driven a sport bike. PS sitting in the bitch seat does not count. Fyi to everyone if you think driving a dirt bike helpslearning on a crotch rocket your are going to get hurt badly. The same goes for cruisers. I'm not afraid to die but i respect 18 wheelers and 4000 lb trucks and cars with idiot drivers like you enough to reralize that it only takes one of those dumbasses again like you to kill me with thier dumb *** cages. What I told her was true and IF YOU are smart at all you will listen. and once again If you have not crashed all ready then you are due for one sooooooo.......YOU ARE GOING TO CRASH. Depending on how prepared for it you are will help you live to ride another day. A wise man listens to advise and learnes a fool rushes on to his doom aka dirt riders who think thier bikes are anything like crotch rockets

 

JCSHAVERS... I think there is a 99.99% chance that you in fact are going to crash your bike... because you seem to be the kind of guy who doesn't know what you don't know.

Physics is physics. The physics of a dirt bike are 100% the same as the physics of a sport bike. You reach the edge of your available friction and you grab a handful of brake you are going to go down. The difference is when you go down on dirt... it doesn't hurt. When you reach the limit on a dirt bike you tend to do it at lower speeds because there is less available traction than on a street bike. Your dirt bike in at or beyond threshhold gives you as a rider an incomparable learning experience. You do the right thing you stay upright. You do the wrong thing you fall in some dirt. You wash out the front on a dirt bike the remedy is the same as on a road bike, however the consequences of 'learning' are far less severe. So, how exactly do you safely learn what your motorcycle does at the limit on the street?

And if you think your dirt bike can't feel like a sportbike, then you absolutely have never ridden a 250cc 2-stroke on technical single track, or my KTM 950 S-E over anything (100hp at the wheel). If you had you wouldn't be talking about people being bitches. Something tells me if you were confronted by a 60hp dirtbike that weighs 230lbs and told to climb a shale hillside that's near vertical you'd get punk'd. And you'd also be surprised to learn that the clutch control, balance and weight transfer you learn in that scenario translates directly to your sportbike. And if you managed to make it up the hill chances are, when you got the bike turned around and had to look straight down the hillside and prepare to come down you'd crap your pants. But you're telling me that managing the bike's friction coming back down the hill while slowing the bike and not endoing or washing out while riding on marbles doesn't translate at all to what your CBR might tell you as your shutting it down for a hairpin at the end of a long straight? If that's what you are telling me then you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

And yes I do have a sport bike, should be no surprise that it is a CBR 600 RR which is why I'm on this board. My CBR is no more impressive of a machine on the road than my KTM is for the dirt. In fact my KTM actually is more of a beast/more difficult to handle. I ride in the dirt often and feeling the bike in the dirt has done something that no amount of gear or bull****ting on a board could ever do, and that is make me a better rider, and oh yeah, teach me what a bike feels like at the limit (since I can spend 90% of my riding day in the dirt riding at or beyond the limit--and the 'feeling' of the limit is the same on the road or off). And yeah, I do track days too. And that's where I get my hooligan out, on the track and it dirt. And that is why I know I am not destined to crash, because I know how to handle my bike at the limit, and I don't go near the limit on the street where the variables are out of my control.

No one would argue you need good gear. I always follow ATTGATT (all the gear all the time). However, gear only protects when you **** up. But, how about learning how not to **** up? That is what I am talking about. If you are convinced you're going to crash then you are right. I am convinced I am not going to crash. If you get taken out by a 4000lb car or truck it is your own fault because you're riding where you shouldn't be or you didn't anticipate a dangerous situation, or you are being stupid/careless, or your bike or the situation presented you with an input that you reacted incorrectly to (like grabbing the front brake at full lean). When you crash, it is your fault... always. You should never get surprised by a situation, if you are then you are riding too fast for the conditions or your operating system is not very good (like you don't anticipate cars pulling out, or turning left in front of you, or you ride in their

 

right on to everything u said yo (can't believe i read your book up above ^^ lol ) but don't get too worked up with some who can only debate on the net with the "my e-***** is bigger than yours" formula .. not worth the effort. anyone whose ridden dirt knows it can do nothing but help you become a better rider.

only part i disagree with is this:


I know where you're going with all that and it's better to be optimistic/confident and with the mindset that you're not going to ever crash (and I haven't in 20+ years of riding) but the reality is that no matter how good or great you are, you can only have so much control .. the rest is in the hands of fate, luck or whatever you pray to. You can do all the right things and still have someone come out of nowhere and take you out .. be it drunk, stupid or whatever and no amount of preparation can do anything about it .. not to say the preparations won't lessen the chances but they will NEVER eliminate them. I don't feel out of line saying that with the og posters fears already in mind because reality is that's moreso part of motorcycle riding and that fear should be there to always keep you on your toes.

p.s. I say all that with the recent tragedy of a board members death in mind; he was an msf instructor and was as prepared a rider as you could get but someone still pulled in front of him without much of anything he could do about it; wasn't going fast, etc.. (I won't go into further details out of respect to those who don't want to be reminded)

 

this is getting away from being helpful I think we all the know risks

i stand by my previous and the post from TXN_DRIVER

 

Yaflaco. You just spent alot of time typing a book for nothing. I say it again ARE YOU KIDING ME? Riding dirt is nothing I repeat nothing like riding a sport bike. Only thing that might help would be getting used to letting out a clutch if you have never done it before. Thats the idiotic crap that makes people try to power slide out of parking lots and end up with tank slapers. Any freaking hill billy can ride a dirt bike. I'm not wasting any more time with this stupidity. Your wrong period. Your giving addvise that can get people hurt big time. And not getting hurt on dirt bikes ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Can you say broken ribs,arms,twisted legs backs. You are an idiot it has nothing to do with a pissing contest it has to do with the bs coming from your computer. Parking lots riding with friends and I took it a step farther i got behind my wife and put on hazards in my car to teach her how to driveto be exta safe. No mater what you do its your fault I'm gana laugh my *** off when a few pebbles take your bike out from under you. Then half this board will buy your bike for penies on the dollar. Ohh wait I guess you will just power slide through the gravel. You realy do have no clue I don't think you own a sport bike I think your another window shopper looking to buy a gsxr or cbr. You ride a dirt bike on your Daddy's farm and want a sport bike. You probably spend your days dreaming of when you can finaly get that sport bike. But thats just me. If thats the case then your dumb for posting. If what you say about yourself is true then what your posting is dumb and I await your gravel in the road story.

 

JC, underlying your argument is a false assumption, which is that because a sportbike is 'fast' riding a bike you think is 'slow' doesn't give you adequate preparation. But this is false, because a dirt bike can be extremely fast for the conditions that you ride it in. On a 60hp bike on a 3 ft wide rutted trail stuff happens just as fast if not faster than on a CBR on a canyon road. With one exception... On the canyon road on a CBR a normal rider will still not knowingly be able to approach the limit of the bike, and therefore never learn how to ride through a mistake in a safe manner.

A dirt bike and a sport bike and a motogp bike all follow the same rules. If your CBR is in a slide if feels and reacts the same way your dirtbike does in a slide. This is because of this thing called PHYSICS--you can't escape it. My point is you can't get your CBR into a slide on the street in a safe manner. Therefore, if you screw up and do happen to get your CBR into a slide you're not going to know how to deal with it and then you're gonna crash it. A slide is a slide, period. And the inputs you put into the bike are the same. And by you saying I am going to crash when my bike hits gravel in a corner YOU ARE PROVING MY POINT. My points were ride a dirt bike to learn how to manage traction and how the bike behaves at the limit, and two, have a good operating system in place so that you minimize your risk when on the road. So, the way I ride on the street is to not commit to a line that requires that a hazard not be present in order to successfully negotiate a turn. If you can't see it when you set the bike at corner entry, then you have to assume that the gravel is there and take a more minimal line that either requires less lean angle or provides some margin/distance for correcting or getting on the brakes. If you can't create that distance then you are riding too fast for the conditions. I'm not saying I won't crash in that situation, but I am saying having spent a lot of time sliding around on bikes, including the CBR, I will at least not react in the wrong way to that scenario by, say, chopping the throttle or grabbing brakes which GUARANTEES a lowside.

If you disagree with that you simply don't know what you are talking about. Riding around in a parking lot is fine, the young lady should spend many hours riding. She should ride as much as she can. It's the only way to get better. But she'll make more progress in the dirt. The idea is to learn what the bike feels like when its at the limit of traction. YOU CANNOT DO THAT ON THE STREET OR IN A PARKING LOT ON A SPORT BIKE. The only place I have ever seen that in a way comparable to the dirt is on the slide bike at Keith Code's school. But its a lot of trouble compared to just riding a dirt bike.

Can you get hurt riding in the dirt? Yes. You can get hurt getting out of the bed in the morning. But its a hell of a lot safer and more productive place to learn to ride a bike than in traffic. Especially if you're interested in improving your performance.

Insult me all you like, but, you're wrong about what you said. And I do have a sportbike, a CBR 600 RR. And its a pretty docile machine. It's almost mellow compared to the KTM or a 250 two smoker, no matter what you think.

Young lady, if you're still out there, try taking the MSF dirt bike school, (dirtbikeschool.com) and make your own decision. I think it can do nothing but help. Unless you'd like to practice losing the front-end on a freeway exit sometime.

 

WHY why why oh my dear god WHY! If you hit gravel on the cbr your are going to tank slap.....YA know why cause the front or rear most of the time its the rear tire is going to slide out then Ya know what happens huh huh do ya it finds traction again and there is an extremly quick jerk because the rubber has met the road again and now for our example the bike is slightly side ways and leaning....meaning are ya with me so far that the rear of thebike is being launched foward and up at the same time. If your rear tire happens to keep sliding once it touches the ground its almost sheer luck Not in any way skill ya know why hu huh do ya becaus what we are talking about takes less than one second it takes longer than that for your brain to realize what is going on there cup cake. PHYSICS!? You want to quote PHYSICS!? Physics proves my point 2 different objects in 2 different types of places = 2 different out comes tadah! are ya getting it yet huh are ya. different tires different types of roads lets see actual road vs dirt trail hmm yea they are realy the same. Hmmmmm like I said someone is on Daddy's farm. Steet bikes are not meant to slide nore do they like too pussh it just a hair to far sliding as you call it and you will get tail shake head shake and then a tank slapper. And to the girl who was asking DO NOT WAIST YOUR MONEY ON A DIRT BIKE COURSE IT WILL NOT HELP YOU. Dirt bikes are meant to slide.........sigh I'm not even doing this. Anyone with half a brain knows how to figure this out. I'm insulting half the population by pointing out difference between a dirt bike and a cbr. Peace to all and Yoflaco like I said I look foward to hearing about your gravel story. And as far as you sliding all the time on your CBR ROFLMAO your truly are a farm boy or one ride away from the parts bin Dumbass.

 

If you hit gravel in a lean you're not going to get a tank slapper. I am not at all sure what exactly you're trying to say in your post but it doesn't make sense.

However, if you're in a lean and the rear steps out on you that doesn't mean you are going to high side. It depends on the conditions. But one thing is sure and that is if you grab the brake or chop the throttle then one or more bad things are going to happen to you. If you keep the throttle open or increase it then you can a) drive out of your takslapper or b) avoid your highside and probably straighten the bike back up. The high side is caused when you regain traction all at once and the suspension unloads its energy. But again, you're missing my point, I am advocating riding your bike in such as way that if you encounter gravel at the apex of a turn you don't have to crash. You're fully committed in that scenario and it's not a safe attitude for the street.

What you are saying doesn't make sense. And you're sort of making my point. You are saying street bikes aren't made to slide (not true necessarily) and therefore if you get your bike into a slide you by definition have to crash.

What I am saying is that if you get used to feeling what your bike feels like in a slide, if you get yourself into a slide on a road bike then you will have programmed yourself how to respond to the situation properly--like not chopping the throttle when you lose traction in the rear, or not grabbing a handful of front brakes when the bike gets squirrely. These are things you learn on a dirtbike much easier and more frequently than on a streetbike.

You are arguing that a slide = doom or an automatic high-side and there is no way out of it and that time spent on a dirt bike is a waste of time. Those two arguments are simply not true. If your logic is true then riding in a parking lot couldn't possibly help you either.

My arguments are simple... learn to ride in the dirt and you'll have a better chance of controlling your streetbike when its in a slide because you'll have been in the situation before. My second argument is to ride the bike with a plan-- don't drive in a way that increases your opportunity to crash. This has to do with your interaction with traffic. It also has to do with things like blasting thru corners where you don't know if the line is clear. I think my logic here can't be so easily dismissed. The few thousand people I rode off road with yesterday at Hollister also agree.

 

I really don't think you know what a tank slapper is....