Downshifting Query...
 

I hope i posted this in the right area,and forgive my uber-noobness,
because this probably seems like a really stupid question,but i need to know...

Why, when i downshift does the shifter stop at neutral,and refuse to drop into first without fully releasing and re-pulling the clutch?
it only happens occasionally on both my bikes.
(i like to be in first with the clutch in @ stops, so i'm ready to go...is this a bad habit forming?)

Let me see if I understand your query...

Are you trying to downshift to first gear while still rolling up to the stop? If so, you shouldn't downshift to first gear above a certain speed (see your manual). Wait til you're completely stopped to shift to first.

yes. shifting down into 1st while rolling..slowing to a stop....not at high speeds, though.
i will try to nip this in the bud,if it is indeed a bad habit forming...

I usually have to feather the shifter to land in neutral when downshifting from 2nd. Like when rolling up to the gate access at work, a lot of times I miss neutral completely and land in first. And I kinda need to be in neutral so I can dig my id badge out and lean over to hit the card reader :p

As for being in 1st at a stop, I consider it a good idea and am almost always in gear when stopped (occasionally I go to neutral to stretch or adjust my pants). Being in 1st while stopped means you're ready in case you have to move for some reason (a car that may not stop in time). Bikers have been rear ended sitting at a light or while stopped. Whether they were paying attention or could have evaded the vehicle isn't known. But I can say that bringing both feet up on the pegs, shifting, rolling on the throttle and moving out without falling over or stalling takes some experience.

Versus (and I know this goes against the MSF teachings) drawing only my left leg up (as my right is already on the peg) and rolling on the throttle, which feels almost natural to me. I guess for me it's a sense of preparedness. Sorta like carrying a gun without a round chambered. Adding in the extra step in an emergency can cost you your life

In the MSF course I was actually told to shift down to first gear before stopping, every time I stop. There were actually marks against you on the driving tests if you were not in first gear when stopped (especially on the quick stop test). Is this something new? We were only specifically told to put the bike in neutral for starting, otherwise we were always in gear.

MSF teaches 2 feet on the ground. I use one foot and cover the rear brake with my right foot. Otherwise you're correct: braking test you have to downshift to first and stop

this is exactly how i ride. always in first at a stop.
why does the shifter deny first gear(only sometimes) ,without fully releasing and re-engaging
the clutch?
there must be a very valid answer as both my brand-new CBR 125 and my yamaha SECA2 do this. what is the reason?

I don't like putting the feet down, so if I know I have to stop ahead, I downshift all the way down to 1st. no neutral involved. I almost have problem putting in neutral from 2nd

some transmissions have a safety prevention. dont look at it like your goin into first, look at it as if you need nuetral. this prevents you from going into first and stalling. its not exactly a bad habit to learn as much as learning to adapt.

typically when comming to a stop(except stop signs) you will want nuetral, clutches on bikes are jsut as tempermental as cars. teach yourself to rest in nuetral and put it down to first once the light changes.

if you shift to 1st when light goes green not befor, you may be lucky and not get hit by that red light runner.

I have problems from time to time getting the bike to shift at all when I'm still. Sometimes I can fix it by revving the engine with the clutch pulled in and shifting while the engine turns, other times I have to physically roll the bike a bit to get the gears to swap. I also have issues getting into neutral without revving the engine a bit sometimes.

I had a problem yesterday where I was facing uphill, had forgotten to downshift before I stopped, and was stuck in 4th gear stalling the bike every time I let the clutch out. It was obviously hard to roll forward to shift, since I was on a hill... After that fiasco I make sure I'm in first while I'm still rolling.

My bike usually refuses to go into first if I pop it into neutral at a stop light. So I'm left looking for space to roll the bike forward or back so first will engage. I too just leave it in first at a stop light or sign and have my right foot covering the rear brake. Just seems so much safer to me.

Oh ok, I have that too. I usually let out the clutch a little to let the wheel roll just a inch or so, then pull in the clutch then it goes.

This happens to me sometimes. All I have to do is release the clutch while it in neutral, pull it back in, and then it works. There have been times however after about 2 hours of riding where it will get stuck in 1st. To fix this I actually have to stall my bike and then start it again for it to change gears.

I never knew about not shifting into first until youre below a certain speed. Is this why my bike kind of 'whines' when I shift into first coming up to a stop light going 20-30 MPH?

YES!!! My car is manual trans, so I had habit of looking at RPM when I shift when I first started riding bike. I don't put in first gear when I am downshifting until I am under 10 mph, I think. Correct me if I am doing the wrong thing

Do most of you guys rev match when you downshift or just slowly release the clutch? For instance, a traffic light turns red while you're approaching the light going 60mph, how do you have time to rev match and brake? Or do you guys just brake and downshift releasing the clutch slowly?

If I am close to the stop light, then I just use the brake and stop. If I stil have space to slow down, I roll off the throttle and use brake little to slow down and downshift when I am at right speed for next gear down. By doing this, I am usually able to slow down to 1st gear before reaching the light and start to balance on 1st, then light normally change. so I go.

But then again, I am not a pro, so it may not be the correct thing to do. But that is what I do.

It rarely happens to me but sometimes it doesn't want to go into neutral or first. All I have to do is let the clutch out a little bit (sometimes I'll hear a click) and then it goes in. I never have to physically push the bike unless the engine is off and I want to put it into first gear (when parking on an incline or something).

I always blip/rev match. It makes every down shift so much smoother and quicker. If I'm coming up to a traffic light and I'm not going to make it then I just brake and blip through the gears at the same time. By the time I've stopped, I'm already in first gear ready to go. If the light changes on me whilst braking/blipping, I'm always in the right gear to just get on the gas and go.

If I'm coming up to a light and it's already red, then I'll also blip but with a longer pause in between downshifts (because I'm not slowing down as fast) and using a little bit of engine braking between shifts. I don't understand people who kick down, right before stopping at the light, from 4th or so when at a light, it's so slow and it looks really clunky. Some will say that blipping is unnecessary on the streets but it's so much smoother/quicker. I think it's a very valuable skill to learn.

When I filter towards the front of the stoplight I'll be ready in first and have either one foot on the peg (I alternate but usually it's the left foot) or both feed on the ground.
If I know/feel I have a bit more time when first at a light (not filtering) I'll be in neutral resting my hands. If I have some time but the light changes quicker I'll have my left hand and left foot ready to get into 1st and rest my right hand.
If I need to rest but might have to leave the stoplight quickly (pushy car driver behind me) I'll do the same but keep my right hand on the throttle. I'm very quick leaving the light like this even though I have to clutch in and kick into gear.

About the wine in first gear. I'll get it too if I downshift into first when going a bit too fast (the engine braking is noticeably harder) but it's still smooth due to blipping and I can always feather the clutch a bit (left hand is my slipper clutch :p).

that's what I do in my cage. Good to know that it's done on the bike too. When you're braking and blipping, do you use the front brake and the throttle at the same time, or just rear brake. In a cage, braking and downshifting at the same time is referred to as heel-toe downshifting, and that's what I do for about 90% of downshifts (still in the cage) thanks.

I always use both at the same time (the trick is to not jerk the lever when blipping). The only situation in which I would use the rear and not the front is at walking speeds for tight corners and U-turns. If you are going to use only one, using the front makes much more sense than just the rear. :)

this^^^
i took the course 3 months ago and this is exactly what they taught.

I don't think it is new thing. It is always good to have the bike in 1st gear when you are at stop if you ever have to move to avoid car etc. You are always in the gear to go. If you are in neutral, you have the time to put the bike in 1st gear before you can move out of way. So putting bike in first gear when coming to stop is probably a preparation of being in 1st gear while stop. If you didn't come to stop in 1st gear, you might forget that you are not in 1st gear and when you proceed to go, you might stall out.

When the wait at the stop is long, most people put it in neutral to give hand some rest.

Isn't it all about having the right RPMs? I don't seem to have any trouble getting into first, but I usually don't downshift to 1st unless I'm at a crawl anyway. I made a habit of counting my gears up and down as I hate getting caught at a stop sign or light in the wrong gear. I always dread shifting to first from neutral first thing in the morning. The extra RPM's from the choke causes the tranny to engage with a toothy "THUNK".

How long do you keep your choke on for? All I need is 15/20 seconds and I'm good to go but yeah, that clunk is horrible (even though I never engage first with the choke on). I used to count gears up and down but now I generally 'just know' even if you are already in first girl you can still step on the shifter and nothing strange will happen. I got this tick in which I step on the shifter several times to check if I'm first... little bit-o-compulsiveness. :p

Also, you can get into first at a much higher speed than a crawl if you blip it. It's just that the engine braking is quite hard if you don't feather the clutch. I had one instance in which I shifted down to first coming up fast to a roundabout and I didn't feather the clutch enough locking the rear for a split second.