Leaning and Countersteer
#11
RE: Leaning and Countersteer
by far the best riding technique book i've read is Nick Ienatsch's "Sport Riding Techniques"
Nick is the primary instructor @ Freddie Spencer's school and definitely knows his stuff
there is really so much that goes into taking a corner that it would be impossible to say everything in one post
body positioning, rider inputs, tire feedback, lean angle, looking through the turns, trail braking, proper lines etc
thats why there are so many books on the subject
I'd also recommend doing a trackday to practice cornering skills, MUCH SAFER and most have control riders to help you with all the stuff i mentioned above
Nick is the primary instructor @ Freddie Spencer's school and definitely knows his stuff
there is really so much that goes into taking a corner that it would be impossible to say everything in one post
body positioning, rider inputs, tire feedback, lean angle, looking through the turns, trail braking, proper lines etc
thats why there are so many books on the subject
I'd also recommend doing a trackday to practice cornering skills, MUCH SAFER and most have control riders to help you with all the stuff i mentioned above
#12
RE: Leaning and Countersteer
Ok I will have to check around and see if I can find that book. I realize that there is alot going on when taking turns. I would love to try and find a track around to ride on! The nearest one is probably Atlanta though. I don't know of any close. Will have to start asking and checking around though!
#13
#14
#16
RE: Leaning and Countersteer
Basically, you are causingthe bike to begin acontrolled fall because of what gixxereater wrote:
... and the angular acceleration of the bike scribing an arc keeps the bike from falling all the way over to a low-side.
I tried explaining that in terms of angular acceleration, imaginary centrifugal forces,et c.to my MSF class after the instructor said, "Somebody who knows more about physics than I do could probably explain howcountersteering works," to which I raised my hand. After explaining everythinggixxereater posted with a few more technical terms, I was met with 24 blank stares.
ORIGINAL: gixxereater
Counter steering is the only way to get your bike to turn with any speed. Even a bicycle does it if you are pedaling very fast. Turn right, bike leans and therefore arcs left. Basically, the front tire is trying to drive out from under you and in turn leans the bike in the desired direction. If you are taking a corner........you've already counter steered to get that far. Counter steer more, and you will turn sharper. Amazingly enough though......if you look at pics of a rider taking a corner hard, the wheel is actually turned the direction of the corner although you wouldnt think so. It a simple thing like physics that make riding so entertaining. Good luck.
Counter steering is the only way to get your bike to turn with any speed. Even a bicycle does it if you are pedaling very fast. Turn right, bike leans and therefore arcs left. Basically, the front tire is trying to drive out from under you and in turn leans the bike in the desired direction. If you are taking a corner........you've already counter steered to get that far. Counter steer more, and you will turn sharper. Amazingly enough though......if you look at pics of a rider taking a corner hard, the wheel is actually turned the direction of the corner although you wouldnt think so. It a simple thing like physics that make riding so entertaining. Good luck.
I tried explaining that in terms of angular acceleration, imaginary centrifugal forces,et c.to my MSF class after the instructor said, "Somebody who knows more about physics than I do could probably explain howcountersteering works," to which I raised my hand. After explaining everythinggixxereater posted with a few more technical terms, I was met with 24 blank stares.
#17
#18
Ok you folks seem pretty knowledgeable. I have a question. I have been riding my bike for a short time, although I used to race motocross. My question is, how or what is the proper way to take a curve at a good speed. I don't care much for straightline fastness but I would love to be able to hang turns fast. It is just exciting. I have tried pushing myself a little bit each time. I find that I get scared when I start to drift out or in and I learned the other day that you don't want to let off the gas leaning over in turn to much. Scary!!! Any videos or books that might tell how to do this properly?
1.Get body positioned well before the turn
- butt on the corner of the seat
- weight on outside toes, grip tank with outside knee, no pressure on bars
- hips and shoulders in line with the bike
- head and chest up, knee out (helps with braking and gets you set up)
2. Brake hard and late but leave time (.5 second) for the bikes suspension to settle before you turn in. Don't use the rear brake. It is better to go into a turn a little slow than too fast. Exit speed is more important than entry speed. (at our level anyway) Plus this keeps you from wrecking. :P
3. Drop your head to where your mirrors would be, bend elbows at a 90 degree angle and get low. Look as far into the turn as you can, pick a line, roll on the gas slightly and drop the bike over as quick and as smooth as possible.
4. Through the turn stay on the gas and once you are at the apex you roll on the throttle smoothly up to WFO on exit.
5. Practice practice practice!
The main thing is to be smooth. You don't ever touch your brakes in a turn, don't chop off or even ON your throttle mid turn. Don't change your line mid turn. Don't shift your weight mid turn. And please, don't do this on the street. Practice is fine, but trying to corner aggressively on the street is just you asking to be put in a body bag.
#19
Dissevered:
While that's a great walkthrough on aggressive cornering, I think he was more asking on how to take a long curve on the street. In which case:
SLOW down so you will exit at the proper speed, because you are going to:
ACCELLERATE through the turn. This doesn't mean CRANK the throttle. It means you are giving the bike enough throttle to not tip over while you are turning. This is another thing you're going to practice. You want to accellerate at one rate ALL the way through, and it's usually a very small rate.
TARGET: Look at the farthest point on the outer edge of the curve that you can see. Your body will automatically make the bike go towards what you're looking at. I had the hardest time doing this, cuz it scared the crap out of me to not look in the direction of travel. When you target, your body makes it happen automatically. It's WEIRD. If you start to drift towards the outter edge, you're accellerating too fast. SLIGHTLY easy up on the throttle a SMIDGE. Any quick or severe actions will result in you needing a new helmet. If you drift towards the inner edge, accellerate just as smoothly.
DO NOT BRAKE WHILE YOUR BIKE IS LEANING!!!!!!!!!! This is where 90% of single-vehicle motorcycle accidents occur. If you NEED to brake (something in your path, etc), STRAIGHTEN THE BIKE, then apply the brakes as needed. If you break while leaning, you run the risk of low siding.
While that's a great walkthrough on aggressive cornering, I think he was more asking on how to take a long curve on the street. In which case:
SLOW down so you will exit at the proper speed, because you are going to:
ACCELLERATE through the turn. This doesn't mean CRANK the throttle. It means you are giving the bike enough throttle to not tip over while you are turning. This is another thing you're going to practice. You want to accellerate at one rate ALL the way through, and it's usually a very small rate.
TARGET: Look at the farthest point on the outer edge of the curve that you can see. Your body will automatically make the bike go towards what you're looking at. I had the hardest time doing this, cuz it scared the crap out of me to not look in the direction of travel. When you target, your body makes it happen automatically. It's WEIRD. If you start to drift towards the outter edge, you're accellerating too fast. SLIGHTLY easy up on the throttle a SMIDGE. Any quick or severe actions will result in you needing a new helmet. If you drift towards the inner edge, accellerate just as smoothly.
DO NOT BRAKE WHILE YOUR BIKE IS LEANING!!!!!!!!!! This is where 90% of single-vehicle motorcycle accidents occur. If you NEED to brake (something in your path, etc), STRAIGHTEN THE BIKE, then apply the brakes as needed. If you break while leaning, you run the risk of low siding.
#20