Total Control Advanced Riding Course convo
 

Hey, so i'm riding a 2001 F4i, and last year i got in my first accident (first in 3 years of riding). I was doing some spirited riding, and working on getting a technique down. Towards the end i was tired, and after a 6 hour ride, i just didn't respond correctly. Other factors like a bad left caliper, and bad brake pads played a huge role. After that accident i was decently intimidated to do some spirited riding, but people kept encouraging me to do a track day to improve my skills.

I'm 23 so buying full leathers, track fairings, boots, gloves, back protector, etc is just financially out of my range. I completed the Pa MSF beginners and Advanced courses, and still felt that i wanted to learn more, so someone suggested me the Lee Parks class called Total Control ARC. I really looked in to it, and was heavily intrigued. More and more this seems a little too perfect. He almost geared his hole class towards the things i want to learn. What a perfect idea, of teaching advanced riding techniques, to non track riders, and even track riders can participate and get a good piece of knowledge from it.

So how many of you haven tried it? I really want to hear negatives because all i hear is how positive everything has been for people that have taken the class. I'm expecting the price coming up, at close to $400, it's no drop in the bucket. Also, location can be an issue, i don't have a location within 3 hours of where i live. So would i ride my bike there? take an 8 hour riding class, and ride home? On an F4i, that sounds like a very painful day.

Here's a link if others are interested in seeing the material i have read, also there's a book on the whole thing, i just picked up the other night, and so far very interesting read.

Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic

I might be interested in trying it out. If so, we could prolly go half on a trailer. I checked it out before and figured if I did it, I'd prolly make it an overnighter.

Especially if I took the s1000rr

Everything I've heard and read about this guy...He's the real deal. I would love to drop
the change and check out his course.

However, I do want to encourage you to make it more of a priority to get and wear
the gear. For gosh sake's, you aren't a rookie if you've been riding for 3-4 years now.
If you're on a budget, that's cool, we ALL are. But you shouldn't neglect your safety to save a buck. It should be a goal, if not all at once-over time.

One hospital visit, for even a minor road-rash, and you've already spent more than
the cost of the gear. With the gear, is the added bonus, of NOT visiting in the first
place and the weeks of pain, while you're healing. All avoided entirely, while wearing
the right gear.

Start haunting pawn-shops, thrift-stores, and Craiglist for your area. It's an awesome
resource. With a little patience, you can get gear for 25 cents (or less), on the dollar.

I outfitted my wife, in Frank Thomas boots ($40), brand new chaps($55), a pristine,
bomber-jacket ($5), brand-new HJC helmet ($45) and mesh riding-gloves (the only
retail purchase, $20). You're an engineer, you can do the math..Yeah, $165 total.

And she's a girl, it all had to look/fit perfect or..."I'm not wearing that thing!".
It took less than 3 months, to complete the quest.

Hope this helps, be safe, Ern

Oh yeah. The other option is the California Superbike School. Higher priced @$650 (iirc) but that includes a s1000rr. And they hit NJ.

Yea, i was thinking the same, about trailering the night before. it start at like 8 am, and they ask you to come 15-30 min early, so i'd have to get ready at 4:30 am to make it there on time, which is ridiculous.

I thought about California Superbike School too, but that's much more track oriented, passing technique, and a lot of those. I've been to NJMP, and i've ridden there and on their track before, i'm not against that idea, but think TC ARC is just more for me, i'm not really 100% confident in doing track as of yet.

I couldn't agree more, and i've actually already purchased some nice gear. Just bought myself a nice leather jacket, and i'm really liking it.
AGV Sport Topanga Leather Jacket - Street Bike - Motorcycle Superstore

Also looking at grabbing these pants, AGV Sport Willow Leather Pants - Street Bike - Motorcycle Superstore, I already have a nice scorpian helmet, and gloves, all that's left is boots, but i'm not sure if i really need riding boots.

What i was talking about riding gear being expensive for track, is those 1 piece suits, and a lot of that race gear isn't practical for everyday riding. The AGV gear i bought, is much more practical, and i think 2 piece suits are allowed at some tracks, but these are 8" back zippers, which aren't track permitted. Once i'm financially more stable, and can afford a track suit, i'll try the track out. For now i think TC ARC, and what gear i've already purchased, plus pants, would be enough for a year or two.

Thanks for the info!

Ahh, I'm glad it's my misunderstanding. I cring when I see all of the kids,
living the dream in shorts and t-shirt. Never realizing good luck isn't forever.

Motorcycle boots are actually a good investment. Statistically, hand and foot injurys
are the most common and severe. Only surpassed by road-rash (A nice name for 3rd
degree burns). A cycle boot protects you from torsion forces and hyper-extension of
the ankle, as well as side-impacts to the ankle and shins. All good things to protect
against.

Glad to know you are protecting yourself, Ern

Dude, i seriously get that. People online are all about getting their motorcycle license, and getting a bike, and they're all talking about getting gsxr-750, and other supersport type bikes. No one wants to start on a 250 or 500 anymore. That's how bad habits start. Even though i was guilty of putting shorts on for a short ride, i at least matured from that, and was on a 250 following the rules of the road. Hoping the next gen of riders (and i guess my gen too), gets their sh!t together and grab some gear.

A lot of that actually has a lot to do with why i'm so interested in TC ARC. I feel isn't enough education happening after MSF. I know people that take MSF advanced almost every year, but that really isn't enough. Spirited riding is dangerous, and not something we can pick up at the track. There are skills you can absolutely use from track on the road, but it's just not the same. Different environment variables, and a lot of other differences. Anyways, i'm reading the book right now, and i heavily recommend it. Cost me 7$ shipped from Amazon used books, i'd rather have the Ebook, but haven't gotten around to buying it.

i think people would be better off starting on an older bike. if they start on say, a ninja 250, they are used to the good handling that the bike has.

i started on a 1977 suzuki gs750, then moved on to an 81 cb900. those bikes didnt handle worth ****, and i learned a lot on them.

Dragondima, I don't have any firsthand feedback for the particular course you asked about, other than hearing good things about it. However, I wanted to tell you to not rule out track days/track day organizations. I don't know what you have avail in Philly but there are several good track day orgs around the country that have good new-track-rider "schools". They have instructor/control riders that help you learn technique & how to safely execute. Each riding session is discussed in a classroom setting w/ your instructor to help you build confidence & get almost instant feedback. You can do your research & find those track day orgs & inquire about their instruction.

I've done many track days w/ these types of new rider instructional classes going on. I've been really impressed w/ the rate in which the new track riders gain valuable skills. Its really amazing to see their confidence level go from timid to excited w/ the proper instruction & positive reinforcement.

Regarding gear: Many track day orgs rent gear. So, you may not have to buy everything. A simple inquiry w/ them will let you know what they provide.

Yes, riding track can get expensive. Sharing the costs w/a fellow rider will decrease the expense. As Kuro mentioned, sharing a trailer (& gas) w/ another rider is good idea. Also, if staying overnight, sharing motel is a good idea to cut costs.

Good luck in your choices.

Thank you very much for sharing you knowledge and experience. The closest track area to Philadelphia is NJMP (New Jersey Motor Parkway), and i've actually been there a few times. My brother is an avid track rider, and his friends also are constantly doing track days, even enduro's. I've personally not gotten the track bug (yet?), and much rather prefer doing spirited, and skilled, road riding. I've heard very similar things in reference to the training classes being very good, and some of the more renowned ones like Kuroshio mentioned California SuperBike School, charge a very pretty penny, $600ish. So for the "bang for the buck" type of deals, i think TC ARC is what i've set my mind on. The interesting thing is, that the book outlines what the class entails, if you were to find a nice empty parking lot, and get a few cones set up, and preferably with a few people that have also read the book, you could set up his course. The main difference is having the instructors mentoring you. I'm contemplating trying that method out before i shell out the $400 it'll cost to take the class.

https://play.google.com/store/books/...d=prypfB7vRoEC

That's the book, Total Control, in Google Books

Yea, saw that when i was looking to buy the book originally, the same price as Kindle version. Don't feel like buying the book twice, i like having the hard copy, but i read much more and quicker on my cellphone and tablet.


Ganzey, i respectfully disagree with your stance on beginners needing to get old bikes. Though i agree it may have benefits for some, new bikes implement new technologies, and changed many aspects of the bike. Just because a bike is older, doesn't make it good to learn on, you can still get a supersport that's from the 80's and still find it difficult because of throttle response, and torque. That's my take on it anyways.

It's the school of thought that a new rider is going to drop / crash their first bike. You also bring up a good point about newer tech though. ABS didn't appear on the CBR 600RR until 2010 I believe. And ABS is a game changer. I expect in the next 2 years we'll also see traction control in the 600cc range too. Believe me when I say from experience, traction control on a motorcycle is phenomenal.

Absolute Cycle Experience runs at NJMP and will provide loaner leathers for free for first-timers. Their coaches will observe you on the track and offer critiques and suggestions. Other track organizations probably offer similar programs, since they want to make it as easy as possible for you to get on the track and get hooked. And if your brother and his friends ride track, chances are someone could lend you gear that way, too.

Getting together with other riders who have read the Lee Parks book, and observing/photographing/videotaping each other doing the parking lot drills isn't a bad idea, but it's not the same as being observed and coached by a qualified instructor.

Couldn't agree with you more, and thanks for the Absolute Cycle info, i'll look in to them. The ones my bro/friends use is Team Promotion, and Tony's Track Days. Their intro beginner track days are very expensive, and charge a lot for leathers. I can borrow leathers and all that, but again i'm more interested in road riding, not track. Track is great and all, and i'm definitely interested, i'm just more interested in being able to go to the Tail of the Dragon, and other fun areas for spirited riding. I'm very intrigued by this Absolute Cycle stuff though, never heard of them before. I'll be on their site rest of the day haha.

Hey all... Tony from Tonys Track Days here.

Just to clarify... our intro program is FREE... it's included with your first trackday.

However, we are big fans of the ARC program too... and actually run it during our trackday events. We run 2-day trackday events so lots of people do the ARC on day one and then the trackday on day two.

Keep in mind that our focus is on improving your street riding skills. We teach it on a racetrack because it is safer and easier.

Right now, we are only running the ARC program during our NH trackdays... but that may change around July of this year.

Regardless... glad you're looking to get some rider training!

Sounds great! Keep us posted about the ARC program coming to NJMP, do you guys offer free gear rental like the other organization? I know others that ride with Tony's, and you were my first choice, but that other group kind of got me on not having to buy leathers for something i'm not 100% committed to. Thanks!

Did anyone wind up doing this ARC? I'm interested in finding out how it was.

Going in April

Which location?

I'm going to attend the Columbia, MD class on April 27. Right now, I'm waiting to see how much the IRS is gonna gank me for before I go suit shopping.

But at work I've scheduled those days off and a couple extra days before to go over Yolie with a fine tooth comb

You are?! Hmmm.... maybe i should join you. I'm debating between California Superbike School, or this. I want to do both, but idk how my finances are going to be, and if i can get my Daytona in track ready form. If i still have my CBR i'll probably do the CSS class, if i don't then i'll probably do this on Sport-Touring i buy or the 675.

I had the cash saved for CSS. But a couple things stopped me

1. Forewarning of owing the IRS prolly several thousand dollars this year
2. lowsiding Yolie last April

Th fee for CSS (2 day camp) will cover anything the IRS wants. And the lowside severly shook my confidence in turns. No injury except to my pride and confidence. But it kinda said to me I need another step before getting track happy.

I took the Total Control ARC level 1 a few years ago in Poughkeepsie. Here's their schedule for 2013: CKS KickSTART Lee Parks Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic (TC ARC) Refund Policy

The curriculum follows the book very closely, and does the exact same drills the book describes. It was a fun, informative day. I wouldn't say that I was completely blown away, but I would recommend it.

The CSS two-day camp is too rich for my blood until we're done paying for the kids' college, but I will be doing their Level One at NJMP this May.

I've done about a half dozen track days in 2011 and 2012 and would 100% recommend it to anyone who knows how to operate a bike - meaning you've been through the MSF basic course and have a couple thousand miles under your belt. I say the sooner the better. It's easier to learn proper technique from the start than to try to unlearn bad habits that have become ingrained from years of doing it wrong.

You only push it as hard as you want to, and like has been said, the track is a much safer, more controlled environment than the street. You're less likely to crash, if you do crash there will likely be less damage to yourself and the bike. The two organizations I've ridden with, Absolute and Tony's Track Days, both have great introductory programs of on-track and classroom instruction.

Can't really argue with anything you've said, since it's basically all correct. I'm sure there are people that will argue.

I've ridden with NESBA, ACE, and Team Promo. I know a few that after trying TTD's won't ever ride with them again. CSS is possibly the best motorcycle track class you can take on the east coast, but it's not cheap, and again i know a few people that have taken the classes multiple times, and still feel like going back for more.

The TC:ARC seems to be the best intermediate street riding class. It's not about dragging knee in TC:ARC, but getting good feedback.

I will probably end up taking both, definitely doing CSS, that's a no brainer, and debating about doing TC:ARC.

Since my CBR was my only track and street bike, i was too lazy to constantly change it back and forth, which allowed me to do a few track days during the summer, but i missed out on a lot of good weekends of riding. So might skip this year for track, and just focus on saddle time. If i get a V-Strom or something along those lines, i'll do TC:ARC, and CSS.

I'm down for the Columbia one. Funny thing is that's about 15 minutes from my house now. Early April it will be a few hours away. If you're looking into lodging, I'd check the Sheraton at Columbia Mall. There's a fair amount of post course activity to get into. Albeit, not city night life, but they have a good bar with live music called Union Jacks on the compound. Also a good area for riding in general.

Hmmm... lodging is kind of good topic. I'm not sure if i'll need it though. I was thinking of driving straight to the class, i'm told we're advised to come 20 min's early, if it starts at 8am, then planning to get there around 730. Google Maps says i'm about 2.5 hours out, considering i'll be leaving around 5:15, puts me there around 7:30-40. I could even trailer it if i'm feeling lazy. If it ends around 4 or 5, i could still ride back and be home before 8. If i want to take a break, maybe grab a nice long dinner, then a 5 hr energy and hustle home. Thoughts? Is that too much riding for one day?

Guess the reason I'm more interested in TC:ARC is because of something I think about a lot. Every says the track is safer than the streets. So to me it makes sense to spend money on the course more tailored to the more dangerous environ. Another thing ppl say is you have to learn to go slow before you go fast. The track isn't suited for going slow :p

And TC:ARC does offer things that apply to track riding. This is a member of another forum who did TC:ARC 1&2.

Attachment 34819
Him at a track day

At the end of day1:
Attachment 34820

At the end of day2:
Attachment 34821

His entire review

Sounds like a lot of riding to me. I'm assuming you'll be tired after all the riding somewhat. It will take it's toll mentally and physically. I know you're not performing a marathon, but you need to relax your mind and body after putting forth that much focus. So to start your day at 0430 hr, and return home 16 hours later, seems like a bit much; trailering or not.

IMO

Thanks, definitely the shortest review I have ever read, but the pictures speak volumes themselves. I feel it will help me.

Looking through my notebook, Lee Parks came to a nearby BMW dealer in June of 2007 to give a talk about his book Total Control. My friend and I went because he was the editor of Motorcycle Consumer News. It was a fantastic class. He went over every chapter in his book. I signed up for his class.

It was held at a mall parking lot that was roped off for us. I was on my old Suzuki GS1000. There were mostly sportbikes, including a trailered R6 with new race tires. But there were two cruisers, with one being a full-dress Harley. We warmed up our tires and I was behind the Harley. There was a shower of sparks from his floorboards as he went around a tight corner.

At the end of the day, the Harley was right behind the R6 and there were no sparks. The class changed the way I ride. Mostly, it gave me confidence. Here's a video I took last week on my 1979 GS1000: