What The @#$% Is This World Coming To?????
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04-13-2010, 12:34 PM
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What The @#$% Is This World Coming To?????
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_funeral_protests
thats the link with the video and all but here is the story
ORK, Pa. – Some nights Albert Snyder wakes up at 3 a.m. Other nights he doesn't sleep at all, tormented by thoughts of the hateful signs carried by a fundamentalist church outside his Marine son's funeral. "Thank God for Dead Soldiers."
"You're Going to Hell."
"Semper Fi ****."
Hundreds of grieving families have been targeted by the Westboro Baptist Church, which believes military deaths are the work of a wrathful God who punishes the United States for tolerating homosexuality.
Most mourners try to ignore the taunts. But Snyder couldn't let it go. He became the first to sue the church to halt the demonstrations, and he's pursued the group farther than anyone else.
Now, more than four years after his son died in a Humvee accident in Iraq, Snyder's legal battle is headed to the Supreme Court. And his tireless efforts have drawn support from across the country, including a wave of donations after he was ordered to pay the church's court costs — a $16,500 judgment that the congregation plans to use for more protests.
Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder, 20, was not gay. But for the Westboro church, any dead soldier is fair game. Pastor Fred Phelps oversees a congregation of 70 to 80 members — mostly his children and grandchildren. They consider themselves prophets, and they insist the nation is doomed.
As Snyder sees it, Westboro isn't engaging in constitutionally protected speech when it pickets funerals. He argues that Phelps and his followers are disrupting private assemblies and harassing people at their most vulnerable — behavior that's an incitement to violence.
"This is more than free speech. This is like yelling, 'Fire!' in a crowded theater. Somebody's going to get hurt," Snyder said, his voice rising and eyes welling with tears.
Snyder's lawsuit accuses the Topeka, Kan., church of invading his privacy and intentionally inflicting emotional distress. He has the backing of his ex-wife and his two daughters, but Snyder insisted on being the only plaintiff.
Except for the 40 hours per week he works selling industrial equipment, the case takes up nearly all his time. He says it's more stressful than a second full-time job.
Snyder, who lives in York, about 85 miles west of Philadelphia, is soft-spoken and polite. But anger and sadness flare up quickly, with little warning. The litigation has forced him to relive the anguish of his son's death, and his grief is still raw.
"It's still very emotional," Snyder said in an interview at his attorney's office. "It's like I constantly relive this every day, and I just wonder sometimes, when this is all over, what I'm going to do with that void. Will the grieving process begin?"
The fight has taken its toll on Snyder's health. The broad-chested 54-year-old has struggled with clinical depression and diabetes.
Snyder fought back against the church in part because he felt Westboro paid special attention to his son. Several weeks after the funeral, the pastor's daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, wrote in an online diatribe that Snyder and his ex-wife taught their son "to defy his creator."
Westboro also protests nonmilitary events, such as the 2007 funeral of the Rev. Jerry Falwell, and the deaths of 29 miners last week in West Virginia. The group first grabbed widespread notice in 1998, when members appeared outside the funeral of Matthew Shepard, the gay University of Wyoming student whose murder drew national attention.
Lawyers Sean E. Summers and Craig T. Trebilcock, both military veterans, agreed to take Snyder's case pro bono. They warned him about the emotional toll of a long legal dispute.
Snyder won the first round decisively, when a jury in federal court in Baltimore awarded him $10.9 million in damages in October 2007. A judge later reduced the award to $5 million.
Last September, the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reversed the verdict, ruling Westboro's protest was constitutionally protected speech.
The Supreme Court agreed last month to consider whether the protesters' actions, no matter how provocative and upsetting, are protected by the First Amendment. The case will be argued in the fall.
Then something unexpected happened: The appeals court ordered Snyder to pay Westboro $16,510 in court costs. While it's not unusual for the losing party in a civil case to be required to pay some costs, it rarely happens when an individual sues a private entity, especially when the case is still active, experts say.
Margie Jean Phelps, one of Fred Phelps' daughters and an attorney, will argue the case before the Supreme Court. She has said the church plans to use the money from Snyder to stage more protests. That's what's so upsetting to Snyder, who says he would drop the matter if the church stopped picketing funerals.
Snyder has received plenty of publicity since filing the lawsuit, but interest intensified after the court-ordered payment.
Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly pledged to pay the entire $16,510, and the American Legion has raised more than $20,000. Every day, hundreds of envelopes arrive at Summers' office. Snyder plans to use the money for other court fees and to donate what's left over to veterans.
Not everyone is on Snyder's side, even if they find Westboro's protests loathsome.
They point to the undisputed facts of the case. Westboro contacted police before its protest, which was conducted in a designated area on public land — 1,000 feet from the church where the Mass was held in Westminster, Md.
The protesters — Phelps and six family members — broke no laws. Snyder knew they were present, but he did not see their signs or hear their statements until he turned on the news at his son's wake.
Jonathan M. Turley, a George Washington University law professor, asked his constitutional law class to grapple with the case. At first, the entire class was sympathetic to Snyder. But after they dug deeper, they concluded that Westboro's speech was protected by the First Amendment.
"Once you get down to trying to draw the line between privacy and free speech, it becomes clear that a ruling against Westboro could create the danger of a slippery slope for future courts," Turley said.
Turley, who studies the Supreme Court closely, said it's difficult to predict how the justices will rule.
Phelps-Roper has no doubt the court will favor Westboro. "If that case can prevail, there is no First Amendment left," she said.
Some military families see no reason why such protests cannot be restricted.
"I don't think these people should be allowed to come in and disrupt a family's grief," said Diane Salyers of Sims, Ark., whose son's funeral was picketed by Westboro in 2007. Snyder "speaks for all of us who've been affected by these people."
OKAY
Now Im a christian and I go to church every Sunday but what those people are doing is wrong...
I dont think homosexuality is good but I dont condemn those who do it.... (let alone do it at their funeral..) he died fighting for our country he deserves the respect of a quiet funeral where his personal beliefs shouldn't be recognized but the fact that he died fighting for us
Also they say that the US needs to ban homosexuality????? Its impossible to ban a persons feelings or impulses... Just makes them have to keep their personal feelings out of the eye of the public (which most do anyway to prevent judgment by society)
thats the link with the video and all but here is the story
ORK, Pa. – Some nights Albert Snyder wakes up at 3 a.m. Other nights he doesn't sleep at all, tormented by thoughts of the hateful signs carried by a fundamentalist church outside his Marine son's funeral. "Thank God for Dead Soldiers."
"You're Going to Hell."
"Semper Fi ****."
Hundreds of grieving families have been targeted by the Westboro Baptist Church, which believes military deaths are the work of a wrathful God who punishes the United States for tolerating homosexuality.
Most mourners try to ignore the taunts. But Snyder couldn't let it go. He became the first to sue the church to halt the demonstrations, and he's pursued the group farther than anyone else.
Now, more than four years after his son died in a Humvee accident in Iraq, Snyder's legal battle is headed to the Supreme Court. And his tireless efforts have drawn support from across the country, including a wave of donations after he was ordered to pay the church's court costs — a $16,500 judgment that the congregation plans to use for more protests.
Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder, 20, was not gay. But for the Westboro church, any dead soldier is fair game. Pastor Fred Phelps oversees a congregation of 70 to 80 members — mostly his children and grandchildren. They consider themselves prophets, and they insist the nation is doomed.
As Snyder sees it, Westboro isn't engaging in constitutionally protected speech when it pickets funerals. He argues that Phelps and his followers are disrupting private assemblies and harassing people at their most vulnerable — behavior that's an incitement to violence.
"This is more than free speech. This is like yelling, 'Fire!' in a crowded theater. Somebody's going to get hurt," Snyder said, his voice rising and eyes welling with tears.
Snyder's lawsuit accuses the Topeka, Kan., church of invading his privacy and intentionally inflicting emotional distress. He has the backing of his ex-wife and his two daughters, but Snyder insisted on being the only plaintiff.
Except for the 40 hours per week he works selling industrial equipment, the case takes up nearly all his time. He says it's more stressful than a second full-time job.
Snyder, who lives in York, about 85 miles west of Philadelphia, is soft-spoken and polite. But anger and sadness flare up quickly, with little warning. The litigation has forced him to relive the anguish of his son's death, and his grief is still raw.
"It's still very emotional," Snyder said in an interview at his attorney's office. "It's like I constantly relive this every day, and I just wonder sometimes, when this is all over, what I'm going to do with that void. Will the grieving process begin?"
The fight has taken its toll on Snyder's health. The broad-chested 54-year-old has struggled with clinical depression and diabetes.
Snyder fought back against the church in part because he felt Westboro paid special attention to his son. Several weeks after the funeral, the pastor's daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, wrote in an online diatribe that Snyder and his ex-wife taught their son "to defy his creator."
Westboro also protests nonmilitary events, such as the 2007 funeral of the Rev. Jerry Falwell, and the deaths of 29 miners last week in West Virginia. The group first grabbed widespread notice in 1998, when members appeared outside the funeral of Matthew Shepard, the gay University of Wyoming student whose murder drew national attention.
Lawyers Sean E. Summers and Craig T. Trebilcock, both military veterans, agreed to take Snyder's case pro bono. They warned him about the emotional toll of a long legal dispute.
Snyder won the first round decisively, when a jury in federal court in Baltimore awarded him $10.9 million in damages in October 2007. A judge later reduced the award to $5 million.
Last September, the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reversed the verdict, ruling Westboro's protest was constitutionally protected speech.
The Supreme Court agreed last month to consider whether the protesters' actions, no matter how provocative and upsetting, are protected by the First Amendment. The case will be argued in the fall.
Then something unexpected happened: The appeals court ordered Snyder to pay Westboro $16,510 in court costs. While it's not unusual for the losing party in a civil case to be required to pay some costs, it rarely happens when an individual sues a private entity, especially when the case is still active, experts say.
Margie Jean Phelps, one of Fred Phelps' daughters and an attorney, will argue the case before the Supreme Court. She has said the church plans to use the money from Snyder to stage more protests. That's what's so upsetting to Snyder, who says he would drop the matter if the church stopped picketing funerals.
Snyder has received plenty of publicity since filing the lawsuit, but interest intensified after the court-ordered payment.
Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly pledged to pay the entire $16,510, and the American Legion has raised more than $20,000. Every day, hundreds of envelopes arrive at Summers' office. Snyder plans to use the money for other court fees and to donate what's left over to veterans.
Not everyone is on Snyder's side, even if they find Westboro's protests loathsome.
They point to the undisputed facts of the case. Westboro contacted police before its protest, which was conducted in a designated area on public land — 1,000 feet from the church where the Mass was held in Westminster, Md.
The protesters — Phelps and six family members — broke no laws. Snyder knew they were present, but he did not see their signs or hear their statements until he turned on the news at his son's wake.
Jonathan M. Turley, a George Washington University law professor, asked his constitutional law class to grapple with the case. At first, the entire class was sympathetic to Snyder. But after they dug deeper, they concluded that Westboro's speech was protected by the First Amendment.
"Once you get down to trying to draw the line between privacy and free speech, it becomes clear that a ruling against Westboro could create the danger of a slippery slope for future courts," Turley said.
Turley, who studies the Supreme Court closely, said it's difficult to predict how the justices will rule.
Phelps-Roper has no doubt the court will favor Westboro. "If that case can prevail, there is no First Amendment left," she said.
Some military families see no reason why such protests cannot be restricted.
"I don't think these people should be allowed to come in and disrupt a family's grief," said Diane Salyers of Sims, Ark., whose son's funeral was picketed by Westboro in 2007. Snyder "speaks for all of us who've been affected by these people."
OKAY
Now Im a christian and I go to church every Sunday but what those people are doing is wrong...
I dont think homosexuality is good but I dont condemn those who do it.... (let alone do it at their funeral..) he died fighting for our country he deserves the respect of a quiet funeral where his personal beliefs shouldn't be recognized but the fact that he died fighting for us
Also they say that the US needs to ban homosexuality????? Its impossible to ban a persons feelings or impulses... Just makes them have to keep their personal feelings out of the eye of the public (which most do anyway to prevent judgment by society)
Last edited by __Z__; 04-13-2010 at 12:36 PM.
#2
04-13-2010, 02:39 PM
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not even cool
[QUOTE=zmds18;906513]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_funeral_protests
"Thank God for Dead Soldiers."
"You're Going to Hell."
"Semper Fi ****."
QUOTE]
ive got a few buddies that wood make them eat those signs... people are ignorant and to disgrace people fighting for their freedom seems so ****ed up to me...
"Thank God for Dead Soldiers."
"You're Going to Hell."
"Semper Fi ****."
QUOTE]
ive got a few buddies that wood make them eat those signs... people are ignorant and to disgrace people fighting for their freedom seems so ****ed up to me...
#4
04-13-2010, 05:37 PM
Say the words "Extreme Fundamentalists" & you immediately assume it's that "other" religion.
Truth is, there are bigoted & hateful nut jobs, (being incited by even bigger loser/leader) in every part of the world. All pushing their own particular burrows & all of them thinking their in the right & have the right, to do what ever they want. They are not the 1st (& won't be the last).
Regardless of Ideology, anyone who puts their **** on the line, fighting for their country deserves respect & if a person dies for their country, then that person is owed a huge debt.
In my mind, send the leader of Westboro & a few of their followers to Iraq & let them take up this issue & wave their placards with American soldiers face to face.
Truth is, there are bigoted & hateful nut jobs, (being incited by even bigger loser/leader) in every part of the world. All pushing their own particular burrows & all of them thinking their in the right & have the right, to do what ever they want. They are not the 1st (& won't be the last).
Regardless of Ideology, anyone who puts their **** on the line, fighting for their country deserves respect & if a person dies for their country, then that person is owed a huge debt.
In my mind, send the leader of Westboro & a few of their followers to Iraq & let them take up this issue & wave their placards with American soldiers face to face.
#5
04-14-2010, 06:11 AM
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I am an American Solider. I currently am serving in operation OIF. I also back in the states, am in the honor guard doing funeral precessions for military personal. If I was doing a funeral and seen these people at a funeral precession I would go to my truck, take off my jacket with my class As well as my long sleeve shirt under that, and me and these “Christian” people Would have a LONG conversation and trust me it wouldn’t be pleasant and there would be more soldiers there than myself and I’m sure it would get physical QUICK. As a Christian and a soldier this is on the same bases as treason for me and a even greater disrespect for the family as well as ALL Christian and military families. It should be stopped by the local police; if not where I live it would get nasty quick.
#6
04-14-2010, 06:40 AM
#8
04-15-2010, 09:17 AM
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Im part of that group(not the Hells Angels) its called the Patriot Guard Riders. theres alot of diff M/C members that perform this honor. its not a club just a group of MANY people. some in clubs, some not, and some don't even ride but they help up carry our flags and take tools and food ect. the protestors really HATE us! see there are state laws that define how far away protestors have to be(they shouldnt be allowed at all) and since the PGR are invited guests we just get 3 feet closer than they're allowed face our exhaust at them and drown them out. some people still think thats disrespectful to the decessed as well but the families like the sound of bike much better than that &*%$#^$*&%&**&%&^(^(*(*^^%$&&!!!!!
#9
04-15-2010, 09:27 AM
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#10
04-15-2010, 11:19 AM