Sad irony.
#21
07-04-2011, 01:24 PM
Member
The article I read on this said the group he was riding with, A.B.A.T.E., I believe it was, said they encouraged voluntarily wearing helmets, but they just didn't like a law saying they HAVE to wear one. They also do rides like this against check points for motorcyclist only. This particular man wasn't even part of the group though, he just wanted to ride along to show support. I don't know how it works, but I also read they had permission to not wear helmets during this cruise. I don't know where the permission came from though.
#22
07-04-2011, 01:30 PM
i'll say again, every rider should make the choice to wear a helmet. i do.
i don't care how many people get hurt or die not wearing a helmet, i'll never support a helmet law - and yes, i know that riding/driving is not a right, its a privelege.
because where does it end then? next we'll all have to wear reflective jackets (remember the story from france?). you can see the progression of these laws in what government does and how it legislates. its not the government's job to take care of people or keep them safe. it's just not.
there are some people that have been MORE hurt because of wearing a helmet with respect to neck injuries. this particular rider could have had a close friend die from a broken neck because the friend was wearing a helmet - we don't know. its just like seatbelts - some people swear by not wearing them because they can trap you inside of a burning car - usually because they knew someone.
take care of yourselves and give advice. let people be and make their own decisions.
but if your state has a helmet law and you support it, thats your state's citizens' decision and i'm all for that, thats your rights. i just think it goes against a lot of pricinples - thats my opinion, and i'm glad i live in a state that has no helmet law
i don't care how many people get hurt or die not wearing a helmet, i'll never support a helmet law - and yes, i know that riding/driving is not a right, its a privelege.
because where does it end then? next we'll all have to wear reflective jackets (remember the story from france?). you can see the progression of these laws in what government does and how it legislates. its not the government's job to take care of people or keep them safe. it's just not.
there are some people that have been MORE hurt because of wearing a helmet with respect to neck injuries. this particular rider could have had a close friend die from a broken neck because the friend was wearing a helmet - we don't know. its just like seatbelts - some people swear by not wearing them because they can trap you inside of a burning car - usually because they knew someone.
take care of yourselves and give advice. let people be and make their own decisions.
but if your state has a helmet law and you support it, thats your state's citizens' decision and i'm all for that, thats your rights. i just think it goes against a lot of pricinples - thats my opinion, and i'm glad i live in a state that has no helmet law
Last edited by Conrice; 07-04-2011 at 01:34 PM.
#23
07-04-2011, 01:43 PM
I don't see any reason to ride bareheaded, and never would. But you need to be careful with laws designed to protect adults from the consequences of their own decisions. Just like many of us might think it's nuts to ride without a helmet, I can guarantee you that there are plenty of people who think it's nuts to ride a motorcycle at all. So who do you want making that decision?
since this thread morphed some....
i am all for no *new* helmet/gear laws.
Where Do You Draw The Line, if riding without a helmet is stupid and suicidal, how is riding a motorcycle on the street that much different, when compared to riding in a car or bus. It is a very slippery slope.
oh and leathers will not help you against the bumper of a car...
Personally anytime I leave the parking lot I have a minimum of ff helmet, gloves, and footwear.
i am all for no *new* helmet/gear laws.
Where Do You Draw The Line, if riding without a helmet is stupid and suicidal, how is riding a motorcycle on the street that much different, when compared to riding in a car or bus. It is a very slippery slope.
oh and leathers will not help you against the bumper of a car...
Personally anytime I leave the parking lot I have a minimum of ff helmet, gloves, and footwear.
There's no shock value in a picture like this
to provoke the ignorant into passing stupid legislature.
#24
07-04-2011, 01:58 PM
Super Moderator and Official Welcome Crew Yeti
Frankly, I don't care much about the debate, in the sense that a law makes no difference to me about whether or not I would wear a helmet (since I always do anyway.) But is IS an interesting study in human behavior, and there are valid principles on both sides of the argument -- it seems like whichever single principle is the most important to you determines which side of the argument you fall on. Legislation is always my last preferred method of accomplishing anything, and THAT's a principle I can always stand on, no matter what the argument.
#25
07-04-2011, 02:44 PM
Senior Member & tensioner mod inventor ROTM WINNER FEB 2013
since this thread morphed some....
i am all for no *new* helmet/gear laws.
Where Do You Draw The Line, if riding without a helmet is stupid and suicidal, how is riding a motorcycle on the street that much different, when compared to riding in a car or bus. It is a very slippery slope.
oh and leathers will not help you against the bumper of a car...
Personally anytime I leave the parking lot I have a minimum of ff helmet, gloves, and footwear.
i am all for no *new* helmet/gear laws.
Where Do You Draw The Line, if riding without a helmet is stupid and suicidal, how is riding a motorcycle on the street that much different, when compared to riding in a car or bus. It is a very slippery slope.
oh and leathers will not help you against the bumper of a car...
Personally anytime I leave the parking lot I have a minimum of ff helmet, gloves, and footwear.
I don't know what helmet/gear laws you have already but if anything can be done by any means including laws, to help people be safer/get less injured then is that not worth something?
Is it not worth taking away someones choice about whether they wear a helmet or not to decrease the chance that they will end up smashing their brains out if some idiot pulls out in front of them?
Riding without a helmet may not be suicidal but it's certainly stupid.
I don't understand your comparison of riding a motorcycle compared to a car or bus. I haven't got statistical evidence to hand to give a rational argument here but given the fact that cage drivers and bus passengers are automatically protected by vertue of the hard shell they travel in, motorcyclists are inherently more vulnerable if they don't wear a protective skin.
I disagree with your second point too. Leathers will help you against a bumper, compared to wearing nothing at all. You may still end up bruised, smashed, in a coma, but wearing nothing, add the cuts and gravel rash to any of the above.
It's a choice we make. Some idiots choose not to. How the **** is that fair to everyone else!
I'm glad you wear gear. Don't you think everyone else should too? And if they choose not to then they simply shouldn't be riding.
#26
07-04-2011, 03:28 PM
Tucson,
I don't know what helmet/gear laws you have already but if anything can be done by any means including laws, to help people be safer/get less injured then is that not worth something?
Is it not worth taking away someones choice about whether they wear a helmet or not to decrease the chance that they will end up smashing their brains out if some idiot pulls out in front of them?
Riding without a helmet may not be suicidal but it's certainly stupid.
I don't understand your comparison of riding a motorcycle compared to a car or bus. I haven't got statistical evidence to hand to give a rational argument here but given the fact that cage drivers and bus passengers are automatically protected by vertue of the hard shell they travel in, motorcyclists are inherently more vulnerable if they don't wear a protective skin.
I disagree with your second point too. Leathers will help you against a bumper, compared to wearing nothing at all. You may still end up bruised, smashed, in a coma, but wearing nothing, add the cuts and gravel rash to any of the above.
It's a choice we make. Some idiots choose not to. How the **** is that fair to everyone else!
I'm glad you wear gear. Don't you think everyone else should too? And if they choose not to then they simply shouldn't be riding.
I don't know what helmet/gear laws you have already but if anything can be done by any means including laws, to help people be safer/get less injured then is that not worth something?
Is it not worth taking away someones choice about whether they wear a helmet or not to decrease the chance that they will end up smashing their brains out if some idiot pulls out in front of them?
Riding without a helmet may not be suicidal but it's certainly stupid.
I don't understand your comparison of riding a motorcycle compared to a car or bus. I haven't got statistical evidence to hand to give a rational argument here but given the fact that cage drivers and bus passengers are automatically protected by vertue of the hard shell they travel in, motorcyclists are inherently more vulnerable if they don't wear a protective skin.
I disagree with your second point too. Leathers will help you against a bumper, compared to wearing nothing at all. You may still end up bruised, smashed, in a coma, but wearing nothing, add the cuts and gravel rash to any of the above.
It's a choice we make. Some idiots choose not to. How the **** is that fair to everyone else!
I'm glad you wear gear. Don't you think everyone else should too? And if they choose not to then they simply shouldn't be riding.
and how is someone else choosing not to wear gear unfair to you? that makes no sense at all.
#27
07-05-2011, 12:13 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
You don't think irresponsible squids out bashing their lidless heads into the pavement has a seriously negative impact on insurance rates? Or that it affects our way of life or peoples perception of it in any way negatively? That being said, I'm not for helmet laws, though I understand their intention, but you can't really fix stupid, nor can you legislate it away. I would however 100% support mandatory rider training (msf or the like) as a requirement for getting a motorcycle endorsement on your license, that would do worlds more good than any helmet law.
#29
07-05-2011, 12:37 AM
You don't think irresponsible squids out bashing their lidless heads into the pavement has a seriously negative impact on insurance rates? Or that it affects our way of life or peoples perception of it in any way negatively? That being said, I'm not for helmet laws, though I understand their intention, but you can't really fix stupid, nor can you legislate it away. I would however 100% support mandatory rider training (msf or the like) as a requirement for getting a motorcycle endorsement on your license, that would do worlds more good than any helmet law.
If someone feels they don't need the government telling them to wear a piece of equipment for their own safety, how do you think they'd feel if that same government told them they don't know how to ride without taking a class? Hell I nearly fell asleep several times during the classroom portion of the BRC.
You said people can't fix stupid nor legislate it away. But to give you an indication of the state of society:
- Coffee cups must now be marked "Caution: Contents may be hot!"
- Plastic bags have warning labels "This is not a toy"
- Buckets sold in stores have an image of a child drowning in them
- The inflatable wading pool for the kids at my friend's BBQ today had a warning:
Darwinism is only neat in nature where the survivors and those affected don't go looking for someone else to blame and pick up the bill
Last edited by Kuroshio; 07-05-2011 at 12:42 AM.
#30
07-05-2011, 12:59 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
People would complain about that even more than being forced to wear a helmet, I think. When I took the ERC, I was the only one who already had a M endorsement. Everyone else had already been riding and felt they knew too much to take the BRC with the wee little 250s... Till the idea of doing The Box on their own 600s and 1000s made them wish they had.
If someone feels they don't need the government telling them to wear a piece of equipment for their own safety, how do you think they'd feel if that same government told them they don't know how to ride without taking a class? Hell I nearly fell asleep several times during the classroom portion of the BRC.
You said people can't fix stupid nor legislate it away. But to give you an indication of the state of society:
If someone feels they don't need the government telling them to wear a piece of equipment for their own safety, how do you think they'd feel if that same government told them they don't know how to ride without taking a class? Hell I nearly fell asleep several times during the classroom portion of the BRC.
You said people can't fix stupid nor legislate it away. But to give you an indication of the state of society:
- Coffee cups must now be marked "Caution: Contents may be hot!"
- Plastic bags have warning labels "This is not a toy"
- Buckets sold in stores have an image of a child drowning in them
- The inflatable wading pool for the kids at my friend's BBQ today had a warning:
You can't make laws from a position of retardation. You basic arguement seems to be since people are stupid, we have to make stupid laws. I would argue, that we instead make intelligent laws and apply them to stupid people as well as intelligent people. This whole concept of removing personal responsibility from people just creates a society of irresponsible people. Everyone should be able to expect everyone else playing on their team to try to do their best and not be a idiot instead of changing the rules of the game to cater to the morons.
We are, and I seriously believe this, on a downward slope to *Idiocracy and catering to it just makes it worst.
*(modern day true to life horror movie disguised as a comedy).