This started out as a response to a comment on the "some kid on myspace forum" thread, but evolved into a bigger issue by the time I was finished, so I thought it deserved it's own post. Here goes:

I would hope so. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who do start on liter bikes,have ridden for years,and who now consider themselves "experts". Personally, I think any such classification is dangerous. I think that you are (if anything) a "rider" after you have spent a lot of time on a bike (at least a few years - exact number is dependant on lots of different factors, so there is no hard and fast rule). Until that point, you should consider yourself a "beginner". In fact, I would consider myself a beginner even though I have been fully lisenced to operate a motorcycle for five years, and have ridden regularly throughout that time. The reason being that I have only put a combined 5,000 (or so) miles on two bikes in that time. I ride at least a few times a month during the season, but don't have time for long rides. I savor the time I do have, and enjoy the ride.

Look, since I went down a few weeks ago, I've gained a different perspective on riding. I realize thatI should be constantly trying to get better, and should never think thatI'm too goodgo down. It happens. New riders need to be prepared for that too. In fact, I wonder how many of ushave ever laid a bike down? I have a feeling the number is very high. As morbid and negative as it sounds, I think a new rider should be asked if he/she is prepared to go down. If the answer is no, he should re-think his decision. You never know what's going to happen out there, even if you're riding responsibly. I've read countless stories of guys just sitting at a red light getting cremed by a drunken or wreckless driver.

Thoughts? I really want you guys to post comments on this, even if you just have a few words to say. I realize I went on a bit of a rant, but I feel like there's a lot to expand on here.

 

I believe your skill level (and the type of riding you will do)should help you decide what bike to get, not your attitude. Your attitude will help you avoid problems, but can't get you out of them.

With that said, a new 600 is too much for a beginner, I think that it is still too much for me ( I only have 2 years and 9000 miles of road experience on a bike), a liter bike is for someone with much moreskill than most of us will ever have. I doubt if I will ever be able safely push the performance envelope of my F4i, I doubt I will ever be able to outride my bike.

Honda should make/import a good looking 40hp sportbike to learn on to compete with the little Ninja or even something like a mini 650SV in the 400cc range.

 

Good point.

 

Skill level and type are definitly the most important factors. If you wanna do track days and the knee-down variety of riding then you should definitly not get a 1k. But then again if all you do is drag race then a 600 is just too small, even if it is an 07'. But if you've never been on a bike before and are going to do most of your riding on the street then your best bet would be anything but a new sportbike.

 

I bought my bike in January of 06. I took the MSF 6 months prior to even buying a bike. I never really rode with many other riders until recently and have never been shown much about riding form and technique. I believe that over the time I have been riding, I have learned a tremendous amount from trial and error. Learning better throttle control, when and which brake to use when and where, body position. I feel like when I am out riding I have total control over my bike, but at the same time, that is if I only keep it within it's physical limitations, road conditions are constant, and there are of course outside variables like soccer moms. I in no way consider myself an expert, I have confidence that I can control my bike and operate it adequatly, but I still get extremely anxious before rides and in the near future want to look into getter a newer bike, ie rr, but that also is building my anxiety. There is that saying oh how does it go....dress for the crash, not the ride. I think you should have posted a poll to reinforce the other saying, there are two types of riders, those that have been down, and those that will go down. I, fortunately have not been down and dont take that for granted and neither should ANY other rider.

 

When I first began riding, I went out of my way to find something that would be a good learner bike. In my eyes, this was either an older CB or shadow or a dual sport. And since I found more future use out of a dual sport than just learning, I went with the dual sport. I found a 2000 XT225 and got my temps. Being the first time that I drove a motor bike, I was surprised at how easy it was to get the hang of. The only times that I spilled on that bike were when I was fooling around off road and once when I tried a stupid brake slide that didn’t turn out (I think that I fractured my elbow that day).

After riding that for about two years, I started looking for a sportbike. Picked up a crashed ’99 R6 race bike and turned around and bought a ’97 CBR600F3 a month later before fixing the R6. I found that the CBR was easier to ride than the enduro in most all ways and did a lot of riding after I got it. Started learning how to pop it up on my own and messed around too much one day. That day I wound up lying in ditch with two broken arms and dislocated wrists for about a half hour until someone noticed my bike down by me. To this day I don’t quite know what I did wrong other than locking up the tail brake and having the bike skip out from under me low-siding on a straightaway. I was calm thru the entire situation and didn’t think it was that bad even though I couldn’t really use my arms at the time. I wasn’t going fast and I know that I was messing around with wheelies with no co-rider. That day taught me to not fool around unless I have a buddy near by that can help me out in the case of something like this happening again. I had full gear so I wasn’t rashed up at all, just busted up inside.

I’ve since then traded that POS R6 for a ’03 F4i and have been riding that a lot. I didn’t let that accident get the best of me and quit riding, I did my best to use it as a learning experience. I know that I have limits and do my best to not push them too far, I am by far not a well experienced rider, I don’t think that any course will teach someone how to ride with out crashing. It happens, whither it’s caused by ones self, or from an outside ignorant source…It will happen. My new biggest fear are deer, they are moving around my area like mad since the recent cool off that we had last week and I know that it would be a loosing battle if it ever came to it.
But back on topic, I don’t think that one can really gain riding experience with out riding! Simple as that, if you wanna become a good experienced rider, you gotta go out and spend hours riding. I’m starting to learn a little stunting and know that I’m gonna need to put in hours of practice before I can do anything that looks good. So with that, “practice makes perfect”, nuf said.

-NorthernFirepower

 

I agree, you definitly can't gain experience without experiencing something. But I don't think it would be a loosing battle against a deer. The deer would be pretty f'ed up too.

 

Yeah, and don't for get about the free meat too!

 

Nobody should begin their riding career on a1k RR or600RR.Just like turning a beginning driverloose with a truely high-powered car, putting a beginner on a bike that will hit 100 mph in a matter of seconds is not a good idea. There are just too many things to learn about braking, turning, avoiding danger spots, etc. to be learning those things at high speed. Of course, there are those that can deal with their throttle hand and learn at slow speeds on a 600 or 1000RR, but it's a fair bet they are in the minority.

As said in postsabove, attitude is probably the most important factor determining survival on a bike. A rider with an attitude of, 'Riding is a snap. Just sit on it and twist the throttle,' or 'Look at me man, I'm cool because I ride fast,' shouldn't be on any bike, let alonea liter bike. But the most dangerousfactor is that of not realizing there are things about riding not known, or even 'knowing' things that aren't true. Example: a thread from another site a few years back about a new rider on his way to practice wheelies and stoppies with his buddies. He t-boned a pickup because he 'knew' using the front brake was sure way to flip your bike and kill yourselfso he just used the rear brake. Sadly, almost allfollowing postsagreed with him. Example two: one of my former students told me he'd never be hurt on a bike because he'd be able totell when he was about to crash so he'd just lay the bike down and ride things out on top of it. Total ignorance born of inexperience. One hopes that he gained experience on something small enough that he wasn't doing triple digits when he felt a crash coming and laid it down to ride things out. One hopes even more that helearnedabout avoidance manuvers, proper braking skills, watching the road, judging safe speeds, positioning himself on the road, and all the other factors that go into riding safely so that he never lost it in the first place. And that he learned that on a bike that was learner-friendly.

Sorry for the length of thisreply. I just feel very strongly that people should know how bikes work, how to ride and develop adecent attitude about ridingbefore getting onto a really fast bike.

 

DRam, I am glad at least there are some other members on this board who acknowledge the effect of the rider's mentality besides displacement on whether a bike is a good fit or not. Riding the big bikes safely takes a lot of fear and self-restraint, two things younger guys usually don't have a whole helluva lot of.
I thought about posting in the "myspace kid" thread, but you make very good, valid points. Being a "beginner" myself, I know there are many things I don't know (yet) about riding and am always looking for better ways of riding. I also go overhow I can be a safer riderwhile riding and think about the unknown factors,playing the "what if?" game in my head whenever I see a car waiting to make a turn ahead at an intersection.