Pt.2 of my parking lot GP series
Siggy Maker & All Round Good Guy
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Southern Cali baby!
It is formulated though. You have to have the speed before you can have any type of drag. Order of operations is formulation
x/mph = drag/speed
You can't solve for x unless you have the mph.
One must first come before the other.
Thats all i'm sayin.
July 2008 ROTM
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Milwaukee
There are 3 basic cornering techniques:
1. Your upper body remains mostly upright while you lean the bike down under you. Moto cross or dirt style.
2. Your body remains centered on the seat and in line with the center of gravity of the bike. This is old school racing or normal street riding style.
3. Your body hangs off the seat, and the riders center of gravity moves down and to the inside of the corner. Modern racing or 'knee dragging' style.
When you exceed a certain speed for a given turn radius, you are forced by physics to either slow down or to adopt a knee dragging style (even if you intentionally hold your knee in.) If your speed starts to exceed a knee dragging style you either have to slow down or adopt an elbow dragging style. Theres no other choices. If the tires and clearance could support it, you would eventually start to drag your shoulder, etc.. The POINT is: you need increasing speed to support increasing lean angles. You need speed to support hanging off. Otherwise the bike would just topple over.
I promise you this Aken, if you tried to follow behind me in that goofy parking lot video using a normal street style, I'm going to lap you pretty quickly. I have no doubt about that at all.
1. Your upper body remains mostly upright while you lean the bike down under you. Moto cross or dirt style.
2. Your body remains centered on the seat and in line with the center of gravity of the bike. This is old school racing or normal street riding style.
3. Your body hangs off the seat, and the riders center of gravity moves down and to the inside of the corner. Modern racing or 'knee dragging' style.
When you exceed a certain speed for a given turn radius, you are forced by physics to either slow down or to adopt a knee dragging style (even if you intentionally hold your knee in.) If your speed starts to exceed a knee dragging style you either have to slow down or adopt an elbow dragging style. Theres no other choices. If the tires and clearance could support it, you would eventually start to drag your shoulder, etc.. The POINT is: you need increasing speed to support increasing lean angles. You need speed to support hanging off. Otherwise the bike would just topple over.
I promise you this Aken, if you tried to follow behind me in that goofy parking lot video using a normal street style, I'm going to lap you pretty quickly. I have no doubt about that at all.
Thread Starter
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Junior Member
Joined: May 2009
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When I was learning to ride I came into a corner too hot and panicked. I stood the bike up on the brakes and went through the oncoming lane of traffic and onto the opposing shoulder of the road. That happened twice. Both times there were no cars coming. Otherwise I would be dead or severely injured.
Sorry about that. I got carried away with the circus aspect.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,026
Likes: 2
From: Dalton, GA
Theres a good chance I shouldnt have been so casual about this subject. Actually, thanks for reminding me.
When I was learning to ride I came into a corner too hot and panicked. I stood the bike up on the brakes and went through the oncoming lane of traffic and onto the opposing shoulder of the road. That happened twice. Both times there were no cars coming. Otherwise I would be dead or severely injured.
Sorry about that. I got carried away with the circus aspect.
When I was learning to ride I came into a corner too hot and panicked. I stood the bike up on the brakes and went through the oncoming lane of traffic and onto the opposing shoulder of the road. That happened twice. Both times there were no cars coming. Otherwise I would be dead or severely injured.
Sorry about that. I got carried away with the circus aspect.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
From: Tifton, Ga
Not to turn this into a physics course or a lecture on math , but a formula can all ways be rewritten to equal what factor you want to emphasize.
In entering a corner, you have friction, force(gyroscopic, torque from tire, body movement, inertia..to name afew), then all the variables that go into everything that friction and force depend on.
Simply put, you can hang your butt off the seat and pull the bike to the ground, then adjust the speed to keep it from sliding out, or pulling it back up.....
Or you go into the corner at said speed and adjust yourself and the angle of the bike to maintian said speed.
X+Y=Z or Z-Y=X the values for XYZ are constant though the formulas are different.
5+5=10 or 10-5=5
I think I am going to email my old Physics Prof and see if I can get her to help with a real formula with real numbers.
In entering a corner, you have friction, force(gyroscopic, torque from tire, body movement, inertia..to name afew), then all the variables that go into everything that friction and force depend on.
Simply put, you can hang your butt off the seat and pull the bike to the ground, then adjust the speed to keep it from sliding out, or pulling it back up.....
Or you go into the corner at said speed and adjust yourself and the angle of the bike to maintian said speed.
X+Y=Z or Z-Y=X the values for XYZ are constant though the formulas are different.
5+5=10 or 10-5=5
I think I am going to email my old Physics Prof and see if I can get her to help with a real formula with real numbers.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,026
Likes: 2
From: Dalton, GA
Not to turn this into a physics course or a lecture on math , but a formula can all ways be rewritten to equal what factor you want to emphasize.
In entering a corner, you have friction, force(gyroscopic, torque from tire, body movement, inertia..to name afew), then all the variables that go into everything that friction and force depend on.
Simply put, you can hang your butt off the seat and pull the bike to the ground, then adjust the speed to keep it from sliding out, or pulling it back up.....
Or you go into the corner at said speed and adjust yourself and the angle of the bike to maintian said speed.
X+Y=Z or Z-Y=X the values for XYZ are constant though the formulas are different.
5+5=10 or 10-5=5
I think I am going to email my old Physics Prof and see if I can get her to help with a real formula with real numbers.
In entering a corner, you have friction, force(gyroscopic, torque from tire, body movement, inertia..to name afew), then all the variables that go into everything that friction and force depend on.
Simply put, you can hang your butt off the seat and pull the bike to the ground, then adjust the speed to keep it from sliding out, or pulling it back up.....
Or you go into the corner at said speed and adjust yourself and the angle of the bike to maintian said speed.
X+Y=Z or Z-Y=X the values for XYZ are constant though the formulas are different.
5+5=10 or 10-5=5
I think I am going to email my old Physics Prof and see if I can get her to help with a real formula with real numbers.
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Not to turn this into a physics course or a lecture on math , but a formula can all ways be rewritten to equal what factor you want to emphasize.
In entering a corner, you have friction, force(gyroscopic, torque from tire, body movement, inertia..to name afew), then all the variables that go into everything that friction and force depend on.
Simply put, you can hang your butt off the seat and pull the bike to the ground, then adjust the speed to keep it from sliding out, or pulling it back up.....
Or you go into the corner at said speed and adjust yourself and the angle of the bike to maintian said speed.
X+Y=Z or Z-Y=X the values for XYZ are constant though the formulas are different.
5+5=10 or 10-5=5
I think I am going to email my old Physics Prof and see if I can get her to help with a real formula with real numbers.
In entering a corner, you have friction, force(gyroscopic, torque from tire, body movement, inertia..to name afew), then all the variables that go into everything that friction and force depend on.
Simply put, you can hang your butt off the seat and pull the bike to the ground, then adjust the speed to keep it from sliding out, or pulling it back up.....
Or you go into the corner at said speed and adjust yourself and the angle of the bike to maintian said speed.
X+Y=Z or Z-Y=X the values for XYZ are constant though the formulas are different.
5+5=10 or 10-5=5
I think I am going to email my old Physics Prof and see if I can get her to help with a real formula with real numbers.
p.s. physics joke: what did Xy-Z=Q ask Q+Zr/~W? (answer ->) '~Y' get it? 'Y' oh come on.. (WHY?) get it? If you knew string theory you'd be pooping yourself with laughter right now!
Last edited by motorcycle5; Jun 5, 2009 at 06:55 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 259
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From: Tifton, Ga
Ahh yes, physic jokes are only second to Calculus jokes.
\int (1/Cabin) dCabin = ln Cabin ....get it, a "natural log" cabin
the antiderivitice=log(cabin) +c .....get it log cabin + sea = house boat
Ok nerd stuff aside, I was merely stating that you are both right, just you each have different mindsets when going to the corner
\int (1/Cabin) dCabin = ln Cabin ....get it, a "natural log" cabin
the antiderivitice=log(cabin) +c .....get it log cabin + sea = house boat
Ok nerd stuff aside, I was merely stating that you are both right, just you each have different mindsets when going to the corner
Siggy Maker & All Round Good Guy
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 542
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From: Southern Cali baby!
I totally respect and have been thinking on the ways to approach this. I see that you are right in the way that they are interdependent and that it is what your motive is when riding. Though you will always have speed if you have any drag you will not always have drag when you have speed and you for sure wont have any drag without speed but you can easily have speed without drag.
If somebody is Moto GP then of course your thinking about speed so one would put that before the other.
If a person is doing an instructional video about how to drag then, there we go, they put the lean before the other.
Thats still rad and very informative. I think you know what your doing. When are we going get a video at higher speeds?
Those other vids look to be at about 20-25.
Well, what i am getting at here is: what's the formula for drift cornering?
If somebody is Moto GP then of course your thinking about speed so one would put that before the other.
If a person is doing an instructional video about how to drag then, there we go, they put the lean before the other.
Thats still rad and very informative. I think you know what your doing. When are we going get a video at higher speeds?
Those other vids look to be at about 20-25.
Well, what i am getting at here is: what's the formula for drift cornering?