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Interesting article in its honesty.

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:53 PM
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Default Interesting article in its honesty.

Related to a post I made recently about a national helmet law. The article, to me, seems fairly unbiased. Which given the topic is rare for a motorcycle related article by a motorcycle magazine.

What Can Fatality Rates Tell Us About Motorcycle Safety? | RideApart
 
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:57 PM
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But in all seriousness, interesting statistics. Can't really discern anything from it...
 
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:21 PM
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Which is kinda the point. Also, because the statistics are so vague the same study can be used by either side with very little twisting.

I think we need a new Hurt report done
 
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CorruptFile View Post
But in all seriousness, interesting statistics. Can't really discern anything from it...
I got to agree. to many variables not mentioned.

NM may not produce as many deaths as VT may be due to road conditions. The roads in VT suck and the rider may have hit a deer rather than sand.

They also say 'Registered motorcycles' without mentioning miles ridden. HI and TX where bikes are ridden all year may produce more deaths than say here in NY where the ridding season is about 6 months.
 
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:07 PM
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I honestly find the majority that article irrelevant. Of course the amount of deaths, in helmet vs no helmet, will increase in a state that requires you wear one. But as it stated toward the end, the only real statistics are the ones where a state repealed a helmet law, and fatalities increased significantly.
 
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sjona2011 View Post
But as it stated toward the end, the only real statistics are the ones where a state repealed a helmet law, and fatalities increased significantly.
Rider registration also significantly increases. You can't say "Oh look, deaths went up when they repealed the helmet law - that proves it."


This is really simple. Helmet LAWS don't save riders. Manufacturers and Riders are what saves riders. Manufacturers making better gear (everything - better tires, helmets, rider aids, etc) and the riders choosing to use that equipment and educating themselves. Government didn't come up with the concept of a helmet. I don't need an asshat in Washington telling me what is and what is not a good idea for me.


The one thing that the article points out is the only evidence you need - there is no correlation. Take care of yourselves, help others. THAT is how motorcycling becomes safer.

This is exactly like seat belt laws. Seat belt laws didn't save anyone. The market already took care of the problem before government decided to step in. Consumers demanded safety - manufacturers delivered. Then, later... seat belt laws showed up. Helmets are going the exact same way. You can't force everyone to wear a helmet just like you can't force everyone to wear a safety belt - law or not.

I'm willing to bet that almost everyone here wears a full face helmet. I'd also be willing to bet that MOST of those helmets probably meet higher standards than the DOT requires. Did any LAWS make us buy them? No. There's no law anywhere in the world that I'm aware of that requires a full face helmet as opposed to other kinds of helmets. But we all do it. Most of our peers that ride probably do it.



I don't care, per rider per x amount of miles ridden - fatality rates are dropping - even in places like PA that have repealed helmet laws (you can go look in the last thread about this). It's not that riding without a helmet is safer, it's that more people are choosing to wear better helmets that the manufacturers are developing.

If you don't believe me, lets look at the best selling helmets. They aren't skid lids.

Top 10 best selling helmets in the MCN Shop - Motorcycle Helmet Reviews | MCN

The Motorcycle Helmets Consumers Like Best - Forbes
 
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:12 PM
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Just love it when you chime in Conrice :-) No, seriously I do.

I posted the article because it basically says the stats basically make no sense whatsoever. That and I do believe there needs to be a new Hurt report done. But you said something that caught my eye: "help others".

I've tried to help 2 squids because they were coworkers and I didn't want to see them get hurt. I was more successful teaching my dog to do the dishes (at least he'll lick em clean as a pre-wash rinse). No lectures or rants. Gave them my old gear, showed them where to get good quality parts (one was buying used track SLICKS and riding them on the road) and tried to help analyze riding issues they had (when their ego allowed them to admit they weren't Stoner).

Yes, yes... I know you can only help those willing to help themselves. And what are we supposed to do with those that aren't? Watch them die? Not the nameless / faceless statistics in those studies either. The guy we see Mon - Fri at the office. The guy down the block who comes over to our BBQ or we to his. The kid we saw grow up and might have decided he wanted to ride because the cool *** bike parked in our driveway.

It's part of why I ride alone: don't want to put a "Time of Death" to the name and face. But short of super gluing a helmet to these guys' heads and grafting leather to their body, you know their "matter of time" is gonna come sooner than yours and be hella bloodier.
 
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:16 AM
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from the comments:
A large proportion of IN riders no doubt died of boredom.

 
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:26 AM
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Whilst the report is in my opinion is inconclusive I remember putting out a report here abt 3 years back which clearly showed the positive effect of the wearing of helmets, than not. As I recall, 85% of the head injuries involving not wearing a helmet rsulted in death.
But as has been said, it's not what the Govt says that will sway my thinking - one things will, the thought of being a vegetable, pissing my pants and drooling in my food and not being able to remember those who love me or hold a sensible conversation or fend for myself.
Seeing friends with serious injuries is a part of biking wherever you are.
In this country, we buy the best helmets we can affort -
Do you see an NFL player or a baseballer at bat stand there without a helmet ? No.
Nor should we.
 
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Old 12-22-2013, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Kuroshio View Post
(one was buying used track SLICKS and riding them on the road)
It's funny you mention that - there was a kid who was a year or two younger than me that was running slicks at FSU when I was there. He had a 600rr - all decked out with track plastics and then some cheap LED lights on the front and some red LEDs on the back hooked up as an improvised brake light. I always wondered how he ever thought he'd get enough heat into 'em riding around Tally (almost everywhere around campus is 35mph zone). And anyone who has been to Florida knows about the rain...

Originally Posted by Kuroshio View Post
Yes, yes... I know you can only help those willing to help themselves. And what are we supposed to do with those that aren't? Watch them die? Not the nameless / faceless statistics in those studies either. The guy we see Mon - Fri at the office. The guy down the block who comes over to our BBQ or we to his. The kid we saw grow up and might have decided he wanted to ride because the cool *** bike parked in our driveway.
I don't know what to tell you. I don't want a single person to die on a motorcycle - ever. But a helmet law isn't going to help the guys you mentioned and it won't save everyone. Hell, mandatory full leathers won't save the hot-heads. It sucks - but it's a fact. And I've seen plenty of people here in NC (which has a helmet law) riding around town without a lid. Again, think about how many people you hear about that weren't wearing a seat belt that unfortunately die (even when every car has them, and it's a law to wear them).

Helmet law proponents think that the law will fix everything and dramatically reduce fatalities when it won't and the article proves that. Again - I'm only (and have only ever been) talking about the law. You'll never hear me say helmets don't save lives. I tell everyone I meet to gear up, and I sincerely hope that they do. In every helmet thread we have, no one is saying to not wear a helmet, we're only saying that the government should not impose it. And I'd hate to give the government control over another area of my life. I've said it once and I'll say it again - helmet laws are only the beginning. All you need to do is look at the UK and Europe**. If I trusted the government a little more, maybe, just maybe I'd be willing to give an inch. But since they're only concerned with the mile they want to take from us (motorcyclists) - I'll dig my heels in.

** I mean, they almost banned being able to use different tires! What if I wanted to try a more hypersport tire, or a more sport touring tire - NOPE! What if I liked the sound of my bike and wanted a little bit louder exhaust - NOPE! I swear, it's getting to where you need the Queen's permission to change your own oil! All of this is was under the guise of safety.


Originally Posted by Kuroshio View Post
It's part of why I ride alone: don't want to put a "Time of Death" to the name and face. But short of super gluing a helmet to these guys' heads and grafting leather to their body, you know their "matter of time" is gonna come sooner than yours and be hella bloodier.
I ride alone too. I'd hate to be riding with someone and god forbid they go down and need help (especially when I'm hoonigan'ing it on the back roads - I'd feel too responsible for it). But Kuro, your last sentence is the reason to be against helmets laws. That helmet law won't be the Elmer's Glue you're wanting it to be. One of my favorite lines is "Son, if you ride long enough, you WILL die on a motorcycle. The object is to make it long enough so that the rest of life takes you out before motorcycling does."

Lets be honest with ourselves - even with the upmost attention to detail, taking every single known precaution - it's not 100% certain that we'll return home the next time we go kick-stands-up and leave our driveway
 

Last edited by Conrice; 12-22-2013 at 04:44 PM.

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