barry bonds
RE: barry bonds
ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i
steriod use is anything but a "victimless crime" kids look up to professional athletes, and if we say its ok that he did them, then they will think its ok if they do.
steriod use is anything but a "victimless crime" kids look up to professional athletes, and if we say its ok that he did them, then they will think its ok if they do.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: NH
RE: barry bonds
ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC
wow...and you're calling others ignorant?!?!?! that's probably the ignorant quote of the year!
it tells kids that it's ok to use them. drugs is drugs, the juice, clear, etc. are drugs and they have side effects and they have victims...the user, abuser and loved ones around them are all victims. get your so called 'facts' straight before you give out false 'facts'.
ORIGINAL: Gringo
Fact: Steroid use is a victimless crime. Your children aren't going to grow up and be steroid junkies because Barry Bonds broke Hank Aarons record while on them.
Fact: Steroid use is a victimless crime. Your children aren't going to grow up and be steroid junkies because Barry Bonds broke Hank Aarons record while on them.
it tells kids that it's ok to use them. drugs is drugs, the juice, clear, etc. are drugs and they have side effects and they have victims...the user, abuser and loved ones around them are all victims. get your so called 'facts' straight before you give out false 'facts'.
Since you claim to be such an educated person Tahoe SC, you should have zero problem backing up what you just said. Tell me how steroids are bad, tell me the harmful side effects, and when you're done telling me all that, I want to see a scientific study proving it. See all you do is regurgitate the bull**** that CNN and other news networks spoon feed you, and if you had more than two working brain cells in that little dome piece of yours one might think you were intelligent to not believe everything you hear and do some research for yourself.
You're right though, kids do look up to their favorite athletes, and others they see on TV. The difference between kids following directly in the foot steps of a bad influence vs a good one is the difference between good parenting and bad parenting. If your kids choose to use steroids because Barry Bonds does, it's not his fault, it's your fault for sucking as a parent. How about some personal accountability for a change? It's always someone elses fault, isn't it?
Education is the best tool in preventing these instances, the fact that you refuse to acknowledge that there is an education factor to this further exemplifies your stupidity. It is of likeness to preaching abstinence in school. Rather than teaching kids the safe way to have sex along with the possible consequences, why not just teach them "Sex is bad, don't do it until you're married." We all know how well that one works.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: NH
RE: barry bonds
ORIGINAL: catamayo85
+1...we live in a society where kids worship people who could drive a baseball 500 ft. or dunk a basketball with 3 guys in his face...these athletes have TREMENDOUS influence over young people. take Vick for example...pro bowl QB...had everything going for him...****ed up and gets his endorsements pulled...why? because those companies understand that he isnt a positive role model anymore thus they dont want his face plastered all over their product.
ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i
steriod use is anything but a "victimless crime" kids look up to professional athletes, and if we say its ok that he did them, then they will think its ok if they do.
steriod use is anything but a "victimless crime" kids look up to professional athletes, and if we say its ok that he did them, then they will think its ok if they do.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: NH
RE: barry bonds
ORIGINAL: ffingers
well thank you for the nice compliment, and although i falter at times, ha, i try to remain a purist when it comes to sports....
as for the witchhunt....i dunno....it started i believe with them wanting to clean things up....i think the most obvious guilty players, rather than trying to figure out a way to clean up the mess in a dignified manner, they denied it....hard....i would too, i don't blame them for that....but as more and more probing happened...players started realizing, it's better to just give it up, admit it and move on....bonds, rather than stay out of the argument or admit it (i can understand staying out of it) decides to ridicule the masses for what everyone obviously knows is true...i feel pissed that he thinks i'm that stupid (no i don't really take it that personal, just sayin)....i think it is horrible he lied in court....i think it's even worse he wants people to believe he did this with any type of "edge".....
as for me getting on athletes about use....it's more of an issue to me because, maybe once again, i am a purist (and i played sports for many years, even had a partial scholarship offered), that athletes shouldn't use.....it goes beyond our capabilities.....fine....if that is the way it is and everyone uses, ok....then eveyone admit it and move on....but that isn't whats happening...you have people denying it and playing dumb....and what if 50% are and 50% aren't....that advantage the 50% have is completely unfair.....whether it is common practice or not doesn't make it fair....
if you want to accept the use...that's ok....but everyone should.....and as for records...if we are accepting this, have another record book....a juiced record book because human capabilities are pushed beyond and it's not fair to compare (i know this is ridiculous, just for illustrative purposes)....and i know things have changed over the years....but natural ability will progress greater over time.....and the leap bonds took with the use isn't fair to remove Hank's record....
and i don't condemn those who need the drugs....don't confuse that...but i also don't condone those that use for no other reason than because (it is unhealthy for you....that's been proven time and time again) or for an unfair advantage (which if you ask people who use, it's not to "stay competitive", it's to "gain an advantage") right there motive is wrong.....
and to some degree you are right that they aren't my heroes....but you are also wrong to another degree....kids will idolize whomever they choose, if you want them to or not and you can try and lead them in the right direction, but it is ultimately their decision....i don't want my kids (in the future) to look to someone like bonds and be impressed because he stands for everything that is wrong in sports in general....he doesn't owe us anything...i can appreciate at that...but he has to appreciate the fact that he is where he is because of the fans who buy the products and come to the games....we make the money for the clubs to pay out like that....so at least recognize that and act with a little respect and understand that whether he likes it or not, people will look up to him and he has a moral duty to not act like an ***-hat.....
that's just my opinion...as naive as it may be, this is what i fell...anywho....good discussion gringo though...
oh and i agree with the sheeples comment...i try to stay out of that group....but sometimes...well.....places like this, good opportunity to stray...
well thank you for the nice compliment, and although i falter at times, ha, i try to remain a purist when it comes to sports....
as for the witchhunt....i dunno....it started i believe with them wanting to clean things up....i think the most obvious guilty players, rather than trying to figure out a way to clean up the mess in a dignified manner, they denied it....hard....i would too, i don't blame them for that....but as more and more probing happened...players started realizing, it's better to just give it up, admit it and move on....bonds, rather than stay out of the argument or admit it (i can understand staying out of it) decides to ridicule the masses for what everyone obviously knows is true...i feel pissed that he thinks i'm that stupid (no i don't really take it that personal, just sayin)....i think it is horrible he lied in court....i think it's even worse he wants people to believe he did this with any type of "edge".....
as for me getting on athletes about use....it's more of an issue to me because, maybe once again, i am a purist (and i played sports for many years, even had a partial scholarship offered), that athletes shouldn't use.....it goes beyond our capabilities.....fine....if that is the way it is and everyone uses, ok....then eveyone admit it and move on....but that isn't whats happening...you have people denying it and playing dumb....and what if 50% are and 50% aren't....that advantage the 50% have is completely unfair.....whether it is common practice or not doesn't make it fair....
if you want to accept the use...that's ok....but everyone should.....and as for records...if we are accepting this, have another record book....a juiced record book because human capabilities are pushed beyond and it's not fair to compare (i know this is ridiculous, just for illustrative purposes)....and i know things have changed over the years....but natural ability will progress greater over time.....and the leap bonds took with the use isn't fair to remove Hank's record....
and i don't condemn those who need the drugs....don't confuse that...but i also don't condone those that use for no other reason than because (it is unhealthy for you....that's been proven time and time again) or for an unfair advantage (which if you ask people who use, it's not to "stay competitive", it's to "gain an advantage") right there motive is wrong.....
and to some degree you are right that they aren't my heroes....but you are also wrong to another degree....kids will idolize whomever they choose, if you want them to or not and you can try and lead them in the right direction, but it is ultimately their decision....i don't want my kids (in the future) to look to someone like bonds and be impressed because he stands for everything that is wrong in sports in general....he doesn't owe us anything...i can appreciate at that...but he has to appreciate the fact that he is where he is because of the fans who buy the products and come to the games....we make the money for the clubs to pay out like that....so at least recognize that and act with a little respect and understand that whether he likes it or not, people will look up to him and he has a moral duty to not act like an ***-hat.....
that's just my opinion...as naive as it may be, this is what i fell...anywho....good discussion gringo though...
oh and i agree with the sheeples comment...i try to stay out of that group....but sometimes...well.....places like this, good opportunity to stray...
RE: barry bonds
ORIGINAL: Gringo
Eh not so fast. They didn't pull his endorsements because he isn't a positive role model, they pulled his endorsements because keeping Vick on board would hurt their image. Contrary to what you might think, companies aren't out to employ positive role models, their out to make money.
ORIGINAL: catamayo85
+1...we live in a society where kids worship people who could drive a baseball 500 ft. or dunk a basketball with 3 guys in his face...these athletes have TREMENDOUS influence over young people. take Vick for example...pro bowl QB...had everything going for him...****ed up and gets his endorsements pulled...why? because those companies understand that he isnt a positive role model anymore thus they dont want his face plastered all over their product.
ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i
steriod use is anything but a "victimless crime" kids look up to professional athletes, and if we say its ok that he did them, then they will think its ok if they do.
steriod use is anything but a "victimless crime" kids look up to professional athletes, and if we say its ok that he did them, then they will think its ok if they do.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,917
Likes: 1
RE: barry bonds
ORIGINAL: Gringo
Yes I am calling others ignorant. Don't speak on matters of which you have no background or intelligence of. The fact is you ARE ignorant, it's not an insult, and until you can prove otherwise you will remain so in my mind, as well as in the mind of other educated people in this field.
Since you claim to be such an educated person Tahoe SC, you should have zero problem backing up what you just said. Tell me how steroids are bad, tell me the harmful side effects, and when you're done telling me all that, I want to see a scientific study proving it. See all you do is regurgitate the bull**** that CNN and other news networks spoon feed you, and if you had more than two working brain cells in that little dome piece of yours one might think you were intelligent to not believe everything you hear and do some research for yourself.
You're right though, kids do look up to their favorite athletes, and others they see on TV. The difference between kids following directly in the foot steps of a bad influence vs a good one is the difference between good parenting and bad parenting. If your kids choose to use steroids because Barry Bonds does, it's not his fault, it's your fault for sucking as a parent. How about some personal accountability for a change? It's always someone elses fault, isn't it?
Education is the best tool in preventing these instances, the fact that you refuse to acknowledge that there is an education factor to this further exemplifies your stupidity. It is of likeness to preaching abstinence in school. Rather than teaching kids the safe way to have sex along with the possible consequences, why not just teach them "Sex is bad, don't do it until you're married." We all know how well that one works.
Yes I am calling others ignorant. Don't speak on matters of which you have no background or intelligence of. The fact is you ARE ignorant, it's not an insult, and until you can prove otherwise you will remain so in my mind, as well as in the mind of other educated people in this field.
Since you claim to be such an educated person Tahoe SC, you should have zero problem backing up what you just said. Tell me how steroids are bad, tell me the harmful side effects, and when you're done telling me all that, I want to see a scientific study proving it. See all you do is regurgitate the bull**** that CNN and other news networks spoon feed you, and if you had more than two working brain cells in that little dome piece of yours one might think you were intelligent to not believe everything you hear and do some research for yourself.
You're right though, kids do look up to their favorite athletes, and others they see on TV. The difference between kids following directly in the foot steps of a bad influence vs a good one is the difference between good parenting and bad parenting. If your kids choose to use steroids because Barry Bonds does, it's not his fault, it's your fault for sucking as a parent. How about some personal accountability for a change? It's always someone elses fault, isn't it?
Education is the best tool in preventing these instances, the fact that you refuse to acknowledge that there is an education factor to this further exemplifies your stupidity. It is of likeness to preaching abstinence in school. Rather than teaching kids the safe way to have sex along with the possible consequences, why not just teach them "Sex is bad, don't do it until you're married." We all know how well that one works.
fact...i've studied the use of steroids very intenselyin college, as pre-med, an athlete, bodybuilderand health enthusiast. i understand the use and effects of them...much more than assume. i dont' get my so called bull crap from CNN, etc...it's all based off of personal experience, medical journals, and underground handbooks/reference guides...you know which ones i'm talking about.
when used in proper dosages under medical supervision, great...but most do not...now if you are a proponent of steroid use and you've never heard of the side effects...then you aren't as educated as you claim to be, or you're simply do not want to believe. then again it's only the internet...
thank you for all the name calling, arrogance, ignorance and angry tone...i've been there too...anger gets you through things...but in the end...when you get upset...you only hurt yourself...the person who pissed you off doesn't feel a thing.
obviously you aren't a parent...so will not comment on the sucky parent remark when kids look up to role models, etc.
better lay off the juice...because it's even showing on the internet...and if you aren't on it...you just have a bad attitude!
and about kids having sex...well...aside from education, there are moral issues and spiritual issues involved...and it gets very deep...and it's another topic!
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,503
Likes: 0
From: Maine
RE: barry bonds
....i was keeping score of you and gringo it was getting heated.
yes the angels took the sox 2 out of 3. seriously though, i really like the Angels team, young, talented, i love how they play the game with lots of steals, and double steals, trying first to third often on a base hit, i like chone figgins, o-cab, vlad and company, very good young team. not to mention lackey, krod etc etc.
yes the angels took the sox 2 out of 3. seriously though, i really like the Angels team, young, talented, i love how they play the game with lots of steals, and double steals, trying first to third often on a base hit, i like chone figgins, o-cab, vlad and company, very good young team. not to mention lackey, krod etc etc.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: NH
RE: barry bonds
ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC
muhahahahaha...calm down roid boy...keep name calling and flaming on. you have no clue of my eduational background...and for you to assume makes you ignorant.
fact...i've studied the use of steroids very intenselyin college, as pre-med, an athlete, bodybuilderand health enthusiast. i understand the use and effects of them...much more than assume. i dont' get my so called bull crap from CNN, etc...it's all based off of personal experience, medical journals, and underground handbooks/reference guides...you know which ones i'm talking about.
when used in proper dosages under medical supervision, great...but most do not...now if you are a proponent of steroid use and you've never heard of the side effects...then you aren't as educated as you claim to be, or you're simply do not want to believe. then again it's only the internet...
thank you for all the name calling, arrogance, ignorance and angry tone...i've been there too...anger gets you through things...but in the end...when you get upset...you only hurt yourself...the person who pissed you off doesn't feel a thing.
obviously you aren't a parent...so will not comment on the sucky parent remark when kids look up to role models, etc.
better lay off the juice...because it's even showing on the internet...and if you aren't on it...you just have a bad attitude!
and about kids having sex...well...aside from education, there are moral issues and spiritual issues involved...and it gets very deep...and it's another topic!
muhahahahaha...calm down roid boy...keep name calling and flaming on. you have no clue of my eduational background...and for you to assume makes you ignorant.
fact...i've studied the use of steroids very intenselyin college, as pre-med, an athlete, bodybuilderand health enthusiast. i understand the use and effects of them...much more than assume. i dont' get my so called bull crap from CNN, etc...it's all based off of personal experience, medical journals, and underground handbooks/reference guides...you know which ones i'm talking about.
when used in proper dosages under medical supervision, great...but most do not...now if you are a proponent of steroid use and you've never heard of the side effects...then you aren't as educated as you claim to be, or you're simply do not want to believe. then again it's only the internet...
thank you for all the name calling, arrogance, ignorance and angry tone...i've been there too...anger gets you through things...but in the end...when you get upset...you only hurt yourself...the person who pissed you off doesn't feel a thing.
obviously you aren't a parent...so will not comment on the sucky parent remark when kids look up to role models, etc.
better lay off the juice...because it's even showing on the internet...and if you aren't on it...you just have a bad attitude!
and about kids having sex...well...aside from education, there are moral issues and spiritual issues involved...and it gets very deep...and it's another topic!
I know full well of potential side effects, and mitigation of said effects. I'm fairly certain that the conditions under which Barry Bonds and other professional athletes use steroids is a controlled environment, how can it not be? I'm sure with the amount of effort they need to put into not getting caught with regards to dosages, timing, and which esters of which hormones to use they probably know a good bit about what they are doing, or at least the one administering steroids to them does. Their career depends on it. It's made out like the only difference between a professional athlete using steroids and the crackhead sleeping under a bridge is money, which both you and I know is not true.
Don't worry about me being upset, I'm enjoying myself, I find this interesting. If you want a topic that will upset me and cause me to fight to the death about, try religion or politics. Baseball just isn't it, sorry pal.
Spiritual and Moral issues aside, I consider them very similar. I'll give a more closely related example: the DARE program was a failure, why? It taught kids that drugs are bad, and that is only one side of the coin. If they had taught kids the negative effects of drugs, along with certain personality traits that lead to drug use, and what to do in the event of usage of certain drugs, I guarantee there would not be as many deaths from overdosing. Scare tactics don't work.