21 Year old looking for his First Bike!
#21
06-19-2009, 10:36 AM
Ladies Lounge Moderator
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you learn how to corner on a ninja 250 well then you will be years ahead of most people. They can carry lots of speed through corners when done right. I bought one when I talked both my friends into them. I liked riding it but the ergo's were killing me 6'1" 200lbs.
CBR's just aren't good starter bikes. If you are bigger and can't fit well on a 250 then get a gs500 or the ninja 500. Maybe a older sv or something. The thing is 250's are easy to buy and sell for a profit also.
Not a shot just a fact if you get a 250 then say it isn't enough and hop on the F4i and break your leg then you should have learned throttle control and such on the 250. I read the story and I am sorry you broke your leg but you wouldn't have done that on a 250 doing what you did.
CBR's just aren't good starter bikes. If you are bigger and can't fit well on a 250 then get a gs500 or the ninja 500. Maybe a older sv or something. The thing is 250's are easy to buy and sell for a profit also.
Not a shot just a fact if you get a 250 then say it isn't enough and hop on the F4i and break your leg then you should have learned throttle control and such on the 250. I read the story and I am sorry you broke your leg but you wouldn't have done that on a 250 doing what you did.
#22
06-19-2009, 10:44 AM
Senior Member
Elfling, I agree totally. I did the same thing. Clutch slipped on a turn my 4th day of riding the F3. I low-sided with my leg under the bike, and all I got was a bruised hip and shoulder, a dinged helmet, and a busted up boot. Higher bike performance does not alwasy increase injuries.
I was going about 4mph when this happened. There's no difference between learnign on an F3 and anything else. Either way, you're learning to go eeaasssyyy on the throttle, eeaaasssy on the brakes, eeeassssy on the clutch, the only difference is the F3 just requires more eeeaaasssy, lest it jumps out form under you. If it's the first bike you're learning on, then you're learning THAT level of eeeasssy right off the bat. I posit that the supersports may even be a better choice for first-timers, as you've got performance brakes, clutch, etc that are made to handle the rigors of very high speeds, which are similar to the rigors of a noob beating on them constantly. <500 sports bikes make cool upgrades for kids who grew up in the motorcross \ dirtbike scene, where you're constantly crank down on the throttle, then hitting the branks, then clutch, over and over and over, but there's nothing wrong with a supersport as a first bike in general.
I was going about 4mph when this happened. There's no difference between learnign on an F3 and anything else. Either way, you're learning to go eeaasssyyy on the throttle, eeaaasssy on the brakes, eeeassssy on the clutch, the only difference is the F3 just requires more eeeaaasssy, lest it jumps out form under you. If it's the first bike you're learning on, then you're learning THAT level of eeeasssy right off the bat. I posit that the supersports may even be a better choice for first-timers, as you've got performance brakes, clutch, etc that are made to handle the rigors of very high speeds, which are similar to the rigors of a noob beating on them constantly. <500 sports bikes make cool upgrades for kids who grew up in the motorcross \ dirtbike scene, where you're constantly crank down on the throttle, then hitting the branks, then clutch, over and over and over, but there's nothing wrong with a supersport as a first bike in general.
Last edited by johnnyx; 06-19-2009 at 10:55 AM.
#23
06-19-2009, 10:47 AM
Ladies Lounge Moderator
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#24
06-19-2009, 10:59 AM
Senior Member
That's like the third time this week I've heard "I've had both and the CBR is a way nicer ride" to some extent.
#26
06-19-2009, 12:12 PM
There's no difference between learnign on an F3 and anything else. Either way, you're learning to go eeaasssyyy on the throttle, eeaaasssy on the brakes, eeeassssy on the clutch, the only difference is the F3 just requires more eeeaaasssy, lest it jumps out form under you.
A handfull of throttle on a 250 and 600 is WAY different, with the 600 being more unforgiving. Do what you wish, but you can't argue that it's not.
Yes you can crash on a 250, but you can also make mistakes that you can't afford to on a 600.
Go to ANY other country and look at the bikes, they're going to be slower bikes ridden much more competently and safer. Only in America are people convinced that you need 600+cc's to get from point A to point B, and most who buy them (myself included) aren't using them anywhere near max potential.
Also, google the specs an F3+ is not noticably slower than any new GSXR.
#27
06-19-2009, 01:41 PM
Senior Member
I really don't follow how you gathered ANY of that from what I was saying. What you're claiming I said is, in fact, asinine.
To clarify: If you learn to ride an F3, then you know how to ride an F3. If you first learn to ride a 250, then you do not know how to ride an F3. I specified that there was no difference in THE LEARNING PROCESS, I made no claims as to differences in the bikes, of which we both know there are many. A handful of throttle is one of the key differences between the two bikes, but when you learned on an F3, you learned to never give it a handful in the first place.
Everything else you stated in response to that quote is in accordance with what I'm saying, so we agree on all of that.
Re: the second quote: I never said they NEED it. I said performance bikes can handle the rigors of beginners who are not very forgiving to the equipment, regardless of speed. How many times does a beginner stall the bike because they let the clutch out too fast from a dead stop? PLENTY. How often to they misjudge their stopping distance, and subsequently have to lay hard on the brakes to stop in time, regardless of speed? QUITE. Of course, we're all different. Many people get the hang of it on day one, and never have much issue beyond that, but we're talking on average, here.
Re: The America thing: Totally. "Bigger is Better" is this country's motto, in all aspects. fast bikes, HUGE trucks, Super Sized fries. We're even trying to get ourselves out of debt by increasing our debt. . .
And fiiiinally: Re: the gixer: Again, I never made any claims on speed. I said the F3 was "a nicer ride," which is pretty noncomittal.
I'm not saying a 250 is a ****ty beginner bike. It's a GREAT beginner bike. If you're choosing for a new rider, and you have both options, go with the 250. What I'm saying is that just because the 600 is the worst choice of the two, it does not automatically make it a "bad beginner bike."
To clarify: If you learn to ride an F3, then you know how to ride an F3. If you first learn to ride a 250, then you do not know how to ride an F3. I specified that there was no difference in THE LEARNING PROCESS, I made no claims as to differences in the bikes, of which we both know there are many. A handful of throttle is one of the key differences between the two bikes, but when you learned on an F3, you learned to never give it a handful in the first place.
Everything else you stated in response to that quote is in accordance with what I'm saying, so we agree on all of that.
Re: the second quote: I never said they NEED it. I said performance bikes can handle the rigors of beginners who are not very forgiving to the equipment, regardless of speed. How many times does a beginner stall the bike because they let the clutch out too fast from a dead stop? PLENTY. How often to they misjudge their stopping distance, and subsequently have to lay hard on the brakes to stop in time, regardless of speed? QUITE. Of course, we're all different. Many people get the hang of it on day one, and never have much issue beyond that, but we're talking on average, here.
Re: The America thing: Totally. "Bigger is Better" is this country's motto, in all aspects. fast bikes, HUGE trucks, Super Sized fries. We're even trying to get ourselves out of debt by increasing our debt. . .
And fiiiinally: Re: the gixer: Again, I never made any claims on speed. I said the F3 was "a nicer ride," which is pretty noncomittal.
I'm not saying a 250 is a ****ty beginner bike. It's a GREAT beginner bike. If you're choosing for a new rider, and you have both options, go with the 250. What I'm saying is that just because the 600 is the worst choice of the two, it does not automatically make it a "bad beginner bike."
Last edited by johnnyx; 06-19-2009 at 01:44 PM.
#28
06-19-2009, 01:52 PM
Ladies Lounge Moderator
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#29
06-19-2009, 01:59 PM
Senior Member
Without question. You have the massive fuel-injection changeover. This provides noticable improvement in acceleration, regarding both speed and smoothness. They're like butta!
#30
06-19-2009, 03:53 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
I always get a kick out of these threads. It's always newer, less experienced riders giving the most advice. No offense elfing, but from your previously stated experience and qualifications you really shouldn't be on here reccomending 600 supersports to people as starter bikes. With your particular accident, yes, it wouldn't have mattered what size bike you were on, but your accident was basically a glorified tip over that didn't happen at any real speed. You've hardly put your f4i into all the different situations in which the greater power of the f4i over a 250 would be a detriment, drug any kness lately? Etc. Also, an f4i and a gsxr 600 put out right about the same HP, both are rated somewhere around 110bhp, the new gsxr's might be a hair higher, but it's a minimal difference.
So many people like to post that They started on a 600 and They are fine, etc etc. Fact is starting on a 600 isn't signing a death warrant, but it is substantially increasing your risk, some get away with it fine, others get killed or seriously hurt. Besides which starting on a 600 seriously slows how fast someone learns to ride properly and learning their personal limits. Even just a couple of months on a 250 is worth it's weight in gold as far as learning and experience goes (if time could somehow be measured in weight :P). Regardless, "A 600 is only as dangerous as it's rider" is a common qoute, I don't agree. A 600 can get someone into trouble faster than their inexperienced riding skills can get them out of, while a 250 is alot more forgiving, especially as far as throttle control goes (especialy during cornering).
Regardless, noone ever listens to these threads and they are usually comepletely pointless. No matter how many experienced riders say to start on a 250 all it takes is one person, regardless of riding experience, saying to start on a 600 and it's done. People hear what they want to hear, they want to be told the 600 that they want, is perfectly ok, and someone always obliges. So, OP, after you get your 600 (you know you will), just be careful and make sure you buy all the gear you can possibly afford. People are always going to lean towards buying what they want, not what they should. Any 250 can usually be sold, quickly and easily,for the same exact price, or better than it was bought for, so no money is wasted. What's the issue with that?
P.S. I have been trying to avoid this thread, knowing that I'd throw down a wall'o'text, dammit, failed again. Regardless, feel free, anyone, to pick apart my arguements and whatnot. I've said my peace on the subject and won't be drawn into the usual war that erupts in these threads.
So many people like to post that They started on a 600 and They are fine, etc etc. Fact is starting on a 600 isn't signing a death warrant, but it is substantially increasing your risk, some get away with it fine, others get killed or seriously hurt. Besides which starting on a 600 seriously slows how fast someone learns to ride properly and learning their personal limits. Even just a couple of months on a 250 is worth it's weight in gold as far as learning and experience goes (if time could somehow be measured in weight :P). Regardless, "A 600 is only as dangerous as it's rider" is a common qoute, I don't agree. A 600 can get someone into trouble faster than their inexperienced riding skills can get them out of, while a 250 is alot more forgiving, especially as far as throttle control goes (especialy during cornering).
Regardless, noone ever listens to these threads and they are usually comepletely pointless. No matter how many experienced riders say to start on a 250 all it takes is one person, regardless of riding experience, saying to start on a 600 and it's done. People hear what they want to hear, they want to be told the 600 that they want, is perfectly ok, and someone always obliges. So, OP, after you get your 600 (you know you will), just be careful and make sure you buy all the gear you can possibly afford. People are always going to lean towards buying what they want, not what they should. Any 250 can usually be sold, quickly and easily,for the same exact price, or better than it was bought for, so no money is wasted. What's the issue with that?
P.S. I have been trying to avoid this thread, knowing that I'd throw down a wall'o'text, dammit, failed again. Regardless, feel free, anyone, to pick apart my arguements and whatnot. I've said my peace on the subject and won't be drawn into the usual war that erupts in these threads.
Last edited by Hangfire; 06-19-2009 at 04:00 PM.