traction control braking systems
#1
01-07-2008, 08:55 PM
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traction control braking systems
I am currently working on my BS in electrical engineering and even more specifically on my senior project, which I am trying to design a electrical traction control system for my track bike (r6)
Basically it monitors front and rear tire speed.....
I no longer use throttle cables. My carbs are controlled by a servo that interfaces with my throttle. The throttle handle is monitored by a potentiometer. My microcontroller that i am using monitors the tire speeds and if one is spinning proportionatly faster than the other, it senses this and compensates the servo to cut out the engine momentarily. In theory it will reduce the risk of tire slipage in corners and also act as an antiwheelie device as well. Its working perfectly in the lab......we ll see how it works when i get it on the bike in a few months........
the second option that is in the design stage is a voltage regulator that takes voltage away from the power source, basically cutting power on the bike if slipage is monitored.
.....today i ran across this.......... has anyone ever seen anything like this, used it or even heard of this???
Basically it monitors front and rear tire speed.....
I no longer use throttle cables. My carbs are controlled by a servo that interfaces with my throttle. The throttle handle is monitored by a potentiometer. My microcontroller that i am using monitors the tire speeds and if one is spinning proportionatly faster than the other, it senses this and compensates the servo to cut out the engine momentarily. In theory it will reduce the risk of tire slipage in corners and also act as an antiwheelie device as well. Its working perfectly in the lab......we ll see how it works when i get it on the bike in a few months........
the second option that is in the design stage is a voltage regulator that takes voltage away from the power source, basically cutting power on the bike if slipage is monitored.
.....today i ran across this.......... has anyone ever seen anything like this, used it or even heard of this???
#2
01-07-2008, 09:29 PM
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RE: traction control braking systems
I have did many projects in my short time as an engineer and Ill be honest with you; what your doing can cause more harm then good. as matter of fact you can mention that in your “abstract”.
two questions; first, what do you mean by stating “My microcontroller that i am using monitors the tire speeds and if one is spinning proportionatly faster than the other, it senses this and compensates the servo to cut out the engine momentarily”. what spins faster ? the one and the other(please mention this)?
also, what do you mean with cutting the power from the source? Battery? Stator? Regulator ? let me know, ill try to help to my best ability.
Good luck.
two questions; first, what do you mean by stating “My microcontroller that i am using monitors the tire speeds and if one is spinning proportionatly faster than the other, it senses this and compensates the servo to cut out the engine momentarily”. what spins faster ? the one and the other(please mention this)?
also, what do you mean with cutting the power from the source? Battery? Stator? Regulator ? let me know, ill try to help to my best ability.
Good luck.
#3
01-07-2008, 09:42 PM
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RE: traction control braking systems
very true that in reality it may do more harm than good....im in the lab right now however.....as far as the proportion part goes, this was in reference to that the wheels are not the same size
the cutting the power part, i was taking power away right before the ignition coils, basically taking power from the ignition coils.
the cutting the power part, i was taking power away right before the ignition coils, basically taking power from the ignition coils.
#4
01-07-2008, 09:55 PM
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RE: traction control braking systems
are you cutting the engine when the sensors see the rear tire moving faster than the front? Most TC systems reduce power through the fuel mapping or ignition. Superbike traction control systems switch from the optimum fuel map to a map that lowers the torque when it senses wheelspin, then switches back to the power map.Then there were the pre-legal-traction control systems that used bank angle sensors to reduce power while the bike is leaned over beyond a certain angle. I imagine those systems are more complex than what you mentioned though but I would think cutting the engine momentarily could be too abrupt
Just make sure you don't have it cut all the cylinders out at once, highsides suck!
have you tried contactingsomeonelike Ammar Bazzaz? You could probably find one of those rocket scientist types to bounce some ideas off of or get some information on how they approach TC
how is the electronic throttle thing working? Any lag issues? Do you still have a mechanism to make the throttle auto-return to zero? I know most trackday orgs require the throttle to snap back pretty good for safety
oh the thing you posted is garbage, I forgot where I read about it but it just reduces your braking power so that you don't lock the wheel. IMO anit-lock brake systems are easily available but count how many professional teams use ABS brakes... Sometimes you wanna lock up the rear wheel and the you should be able to feel what the front tire is doing under braking and easily judge how hard you can use the front brake.
Just make sure you don't have it cut all the cylinders out at once, highsides suck!
have you tried contactingsomeonelike Ammar Bazzaz? You could probably find one of those rocket scientist types to bounce some ideas off of or get some information on how they approach TC
how is the electronic throttle thing working? Any lag issues? Do you still have a mechanism to make the throttle auto-return to zero? I know most trackday orgs require the throttle to snap back pretty good for safety
oh the thing you posted is garbage, I forgot where I read about it but it just reduces your braking power so that you don't lock the wheel. IMO anit-lock brake systems are easily available but count how many professional teams use ABS brakes... Sometimes you wanna lock up the rear wheel and the you should be able to feel what the front tire is doing under braking and easily judge how hard you can use the front brake.
#5
01-07-2008, 09:58 PM
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RE: traction control braking systems
im not messing with you but you will hear this in the future from professionals. im by far trying not to put you down, that is not my goal to. however, you are not really clear in getting your thoughts out on to text and i do not want to apply any of my assumptions.
so explain to me what you mean different spins? keep in mind that i have no idea what your project does. i know where this is going and i have an idea what you want to do, but i dont know how it works.
first assumption that im making and correct me if im wrong but you are talking about the difference of spin comes from difference of tire sizes? if thats the case then your "system" will always be compenseting cause the size will alway be an issue. however, focus on the fact that the rear wheel no matter the size will always spin faster then the front. if it doesnt then the bike will not move forward and the bike will remain at steady state.
edit:
changed the wording for clarity.
so explain to me what you mean different spins? keep in mind that i have no idea what your project does. i know where this is going and i have an idea what you want to do, but i dont know how it works.
first assumption that im making and correct me if im wrong but you are talking about the difference of spin comes from difference of tire sizes? if thats the case then your "system" will always be compenseting cause the size will alway be an issue. however, focus on the fact that the rear wheel no matter the size will always spin faster then the front. if it doesnt then the bike will not move forward and the bike will remain at steady state.
edit:
changed the wording for clarity.
#6
01-07-2008, 10:01 PM
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RE: traction control braking systems
getting back to your question about cutting the power.
if you cut the power to the bat, stator, regular but whatever means then you might stall out. cutting down the fuel uptake is a better way to control the engines response to reducing the speed.
edit:
ha, i guess woody beat me to it when he mentioned the fuel cut off. while i was writing mine stuff he already posted.
funny
if you cut the power to the bat, stator, regular but whatever means then you might stall out. cutting down the fuel uptake is a better way to control the engines response to reducing the speed.
edit:
ha, i guess woody beat me to it when he mentioned the fuel cut off. while i was writing mine stuff he already posted.
funny
#7
01-07-2008, 10:18 PM
RE: traction control braking systems
Here ya go for the cutting part... - Do the VariableDisplacement thing (Like GM/Dodge) - Cut the injectors on 2 of the 4 cylinders. - Cutting ignition may just charge the exhaust with fuel and cause backfiring...
Lag is a concern, Ford's Electronic throttle takes a bit of getting used to - GM/Honda seems a bit more seamless, Don't even remember how it felt on the Magnum I drove...
If you plan on hitting the street with it, make sure you have double acting (One cranking up, one cranking down as the throttle is rolled on) resistors on your throttle - at least then if a wire is pinched, etc. the bike will ideally not go to 100% throttle.
This sounds like lots of fun - Should've gone down that major, oh well... - You want to get technical, I'm sure you can add yaw and steering sensors to eliminate the "Highside" concerns by reading the lean/slip/speed/yaw of the bike and adjusting the engine power appropriately...
Lag is a concern, Ford's Electronic throttle takes a bit of getting used to - GM/Honda seems a bit more seamless, Don't even remember how it felt on the Magnum I drove...
If you plan on hitting the street with it, make sure you have double acting (One cranking up, one cranking down as the throttle is rolled on) resistors on your throttle - at least then if a wire is pinched, etc. the bike will ideally not go to 100% throttle.
This sounds like lots of fun - Should've gone down that major, oh well... - You want to get technical, I'm sure you can add yaw and steering sensors to eliminate the "Highside" concerns by reading the lean/slip/speed/yaw of the bike and adjusting the engine power appropriately...
#8
01-07-2008, 11:16 PM
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RE: traction control braking systems
ORIGINAL: woodyracing
are you cutting the engine when the sensors see the rear tire moving faster than the front? Most TC systems reduce power through the fuel mapping or ignition. Superbike traction control systems switch from the optimum fuel map to a map that lowers the torque when it senses wheelspin, then switches back to the power map. Then there were the pre-legal-traction control systems that used bank angle sensors to reduce power while the bike is leaned over beyond a certain angle. I imagine those systems are more complex than what you mentioned though but I would think cutting the engine momentarily could be too abrupt
Just make sure you don't have it cut all the cylinders out at once, highsides suck!
have you tried contacting someone like Ammar Bazzaz? You could probably find one of those rocket scientist types to bounce some ideas off of or get some information on how they approach TC
how is the electronic throttle thing working? Any lag issues? Do you still have a mechanism to make the throttle auto-return to zero? I know most trackday orgs require the throttle to snap back pretty good for safety
oh the thing you posted is garbage, I forgot where I read about it but it just reduces your braking power so that you don't lock the wheel. IMO anit-lock brake systems are easily available but count how many professional teams use ABS brakes... Sometimes you wanna lock up the rear wheel and the you should be able to feel what the front tire is doing under braking and easily judge how hard you can use the front brake.
are you cutting the engine when the sensors see the rear tire moving faster than the front? Most TC systems reduce power through the fuel mapping or ignition. Superbike traction control systems switch from the optimum fuel map to a map that lowers the torque when it senses wheelspin, then switches back to the power map. Then there were the pre-legal-traction control systems that used bank angle sensors to reduce power while the bike is leaned over beyond a certain angle. I imagine those systems are more complex than what you mentioned though but I would think cutting the engine momentarily could be too abrupt
Just make sure you don't have it cut all the cylinders out at once, highsides suck!
have you tried contacting someone like Ammar Bazzaz? You could probably find one of those rocket scientist types to bounce some ideas off of or get some information on how they approach TC
how is the electronic throttle thing working? Any lag issues? Do you still have a mechanism to make the throttle auto-return to zero? I know most trackday orgs require the throttle to snap back pretty good for safety
oh the thing you posted is garbage, I forgot where I read about it but it just reduces your braking power so that you don't lock the wheel. IMO anit-lock brake systems are easily available but count how many professional teams use ABS brakes... Sometimes you wanna lock up the rear wheel and the you should be able to feel what the front tire is doing under braking and easily judge how hard you can use the front brake.
#9
01-07-2008, 11:34 PM
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#10
01-07-2008, 11:36 PM
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RE: traction control braking systems
ORIGINAL: bergs
Does not compute.
ORIGINAL: travsstuff
...reduce the risk of tire slipage in corners and also act as an antiwheelie device as well....
...reduce the risk of tire slipage in corners and also act as an antiwheelie device as well....