Shifting
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Shifting
Sup every body. I got a lil question about the shifting on a 01 f4i. I never had a bike this is my first NO Permit yet so i cant ride it. Im Fixing it up at the time but i dont rember when i took it around the bolck first time if it went into all gears. I was 2 scared and happy 2 notice. I live near chicago and its 2 cold to ride now plus its all apart from when i fixd the No start problem. Well here is the thing i was siting on it and it was off and i tryd to go thru all the gear and it would only let me go all the way till 3rd. Is that normal any one know? Like i said i dont rember how high i went in the gears when i was rideing it that one day. If someone can try it on their bike Have it off and with out the clutch try all the gears. Thanks gr8
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Joined: Feb 2008
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RE: Shifting
Hmmm yea thats a good idea ill try to rock it a bit and see if it will go in. I was just like WTF cuz in my car i can go thru all 5 gears when its off. I know its a diff trans and all the i dont think the f4i has synchros. I dont know anything about bikes like i said this is my first so i just wanted to ask you fellaz. Well thanks guess ill try to rock it 2moro and see how far i get. I think thats the best i can do till i get it all back together and i can take if for a spin.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Fort Washington, MD
RE: Shifting
Yeah, I mean, if you're really trying to shift while it's off or not moving.. You need to have pressure on it, so pull the clutch in, hold your foot under the shifter to go into 2nd.. keep pressure on the shifter, and at the same time keep pushing forward while releasing the clutch, and it'll go in to 2nd. Or actually it may go into 2nd no problem, but after that you may need to do what I said. Nothing's wrong with your bike though, lol.
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Joined: Feb 2008
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RE: Shifting
Kool thanks Slip Now i can go to sleep and not cry LOL. Yea im a Lube tech at a dealer im around cars all day so i know cars but bikes are a lil diff and i dont know any one with a bike who can help me so Thanks A Lot im gona need a lot more help later on i know it. Like there are thing on the bike tht i look at and im like WTF is that LOL.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Fort Washington, MD
RE: Shifting
No problem man, and for a more in depth reason, I remember reading what thirdgenlxi had to say about it.
So if you read all of that, there you go, very informative... Hope you enjoy the your bike and the learning that goes with it.
ORIGINAL: thirdgenlxi
Yup yup... like everyone has mentioned already, completely normal.
Here's a little more in depth into as to why it won't shift into gear when stopped.
Unlike a car transmission, motorcycle transmissions are constant mesh NON syncronized. The gears have what's called "dogs" on one gear, and "grooves" on the mating gear. They act similar to syncronizers in that the end result is the same.... locking any given gear to the mainshaft or countershaft. But they're still quite different. When you shift to engage a gear, it moves the gear with the dogs, which is called a "slider gear", and moves it to either the left or right, depending on which gear you're engaging. The slider gears have splines on the center hole, which permanently attaches them to their respective countershaft or mainshaft. The grooved gears are freespinning on bearings. When you engage a gear and the slider gear moves over and meshes with the grooved gear, it then locks that gear to the respective countershaft or mainshaft, whichever it happens to be on. Once that gear is locked to the shaft, powerflow can be achieved.
Here's a few pics to help explain. These particular gears (in the first pic) are 2nd gear on the left, and 6th gear on the right. As you can see, 6th gear is the slider gear, and has "dogs" on both sides of it. 2nd gear has the "grooves", and is freespinning until it is locked to the shaft by 6th gear. If it slides one way it will engage 2nd gear, and when it slides the other way it will engage 3rd gear. Although these are 6th and 2nd gears, 1st works exactly the same. It uses 5th gear slider to engage 1st.
The dogs and grooves have to line up in order for the gears to mesh. This is why the gears have to be moving in order for them to mesh. When both gears are sitting still, if the dogs and grooves don't line up, the dogs will just bang against the non-grooved parts of the mating gear, making it unable to engage and lock that gear to the countershaft/mainshaft. The grooves are slightly wider than the dogs, allowing them to engage and disengage at speed, but also makes for some play in the drivetrain. This is why you get a slight "clunk" with each gearshift, and also why when the engine is off and bike is in gear, you can rock it back and forth several inches, and it feels real 'loose'. Just the dogs sliding back and forth a little bit inside the grooves. The shift fork rides in the little slot on the black gear, right between the actual gear part of it, and the dogs on the right side
And when they're engaged
I know that probably sounds really confusing.... I suck at trying to explain stuff But hopefully that gives you a general idea of how it works and why it won't go into 1st gear while you're stopped without rolling a little bit, or letting the clutch out first
Yup yup... like everyone has mentioned already, completely normal.
Here's a little more in depth into as to why it won't shift into gear when stopped.
Unlike a car transmission, motorcycle transmissions are constant mesh NON syncronized. The gears have what's called "dogs" on one gear, and "grooves" on the mating gear. They act similar to syncronizers in that the end result is the same.... locking any given gear to the mainshaft or countershaft. But they're still quite different. When you shift to engage a gear, it moves the gear with the dogs, which is called a "slider gear", and moves it to either the left or right, depending on which gear you're engaging. The slider gears have splines on the center hole, which permanently attaches them to their respective countershaft or mainshaft. The grooved gears are freespinning on bearings. When you engage a gear and the slider gear moves over and meshes with the grooved gear, it then locks that gear to the respective countershaft or mainshaft, whichever it happens to be on. Once that gear is locked to the shaft, powerflow can be achieved.
Here's a few pics to help explain. These particular gears (in the first pic) are 2nd gear on the left, and 6th gear on the right. As you can see, 6th gear is the slider gear, and has "dogs" on both sides of it. 2nd gear has the "grooves", and is freespinning until it is locked to the shaft by 6th gear. If it slides one way it will engage 2nd gear, and when it slides the other way it will engage 3rd gear. Although these are 6th and 2nd gears, 1st works exactly the same. It uses 5th gear slider to engage 1st.
The dogs and grooves have to line up in order for the gears to mesh. This is why the gears have to be moving in order for them to mesh. When both gears are sitting still, if the dogs and grooves don't line up, the dogs will just bang against the non-grooved parts of the mating gear, making it unable to engage and lock that gear to the countershaft/mainshaft. The grooves are slightly wider than the dogs, allowing them to engage and disengage at speed, but also makes for some play in the drivetrain. This is why you get a slight "clunk" with each gearshift, and also why when the engine is off and bike is in gear, you can rock it back and forth several inches, and it feels real 'loose'. Just the dogs sliding back and forth a little bit inside the grooves. The shift fork rides in the little slot on the black gear, right between the actual gear part of it, and the dogs on the right side
And when they're engaged
I know that probably sounds really confusing.... I suck at trying to explain stuff But hopefully that gives you a general idea of how it works and why it won't go into 1st gear while you're stopped without rolling a little bit, or letting the clutch out first
thanks
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RE: Shifting
I also have a question relating to shifting. I know that you can shift up without using the clutch.. but I saw that many ppl don't shift from 1st to 2nd without the clutch. Why is this? Why is it not ok to shift clutchless from 1st to 2nd, and then it's ok from 2nd up?
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