Just Can't Get my Jetting Right
 

First off thanks to all who have helped me thus far, without your help I wouldn't be as close as I am. Anyway, here's whats up. The bike has a 4-1 'race' header and shortened pipe with almost no packing or baffling in it (sounds almost like a straight pipe), and a stock air filter. It has a dynojet stage 1 jet kit in it; glued one of the slide holes shut on each slide (per dynojet instructions), has 126 mains, and the needle clips on the second spot from the top.

It runs perfectly from idle to 8k then hits a flat spot where if i play with the throttle (alternating from like half to full) I can get it to like 9.5-10k where from there to redline it pulls real hard. From all my experiences thus far, the 8-10k prob seemed like a rich problem, so I put on a k&n filter to try it out.

Idle-8k stayed perfect but from 8-redline it sputtered and barely ran (guessing way to lean?). My next move I think is to put in 124 mains with the stock air filter and try that. What do you guys think?

BTW idle-8k is real perfect, I just rode this sucker 630 miles in 2 days averaging 70-80mph getting 46mpg. Not bad

Those who have seen my previous posts know I've pulled these carbs 7-10 times. I've tried stock needles, mains as big as 145, all different combos. Turned out one of my main problems was my absence of a heat shield. I made one up modeled after the stock one and it changed everything. They're real important to prevent turbulence under the air box

I can't remember where we left off in any other threads, but 124 will be too lean on top with a paper air filter, and of course, even more so with a K&N.

The top-end (main jets) have to be dialed in before perfecting the other ranges, though if your real darn close with mid-range and low speed/idle, then once you get your mains right, you might not have to make much adjustment of those (jet needle and pilot settings).

With 126 mains, race header, and essentially a straight-through exhaust, I would expect 126 to be too lean as well, especially bearing in mind that the stock jets are 135.
Personally, with the K&N installed, I would leave your jet needles alone for now, set your fuel screws to 2 1/4 out, and start working from 138 mains... if 138 gives you a nice hard pull from about 7500 to 13,000, then try a 140, if it then gets worse, then you know you're going in the wrong direction, if it gets even better, then repeat with 142 mains (both of my bikes are on 142 mains, with race headers and shortened cans, and they run like mad).

I cannot stress enough, that you need to focus on the mains first, completely ignoring other ranges, so long as it idles and runs decently in the lower ranges, THEN start working on the circuits below, i.e. needles and pilot screw settings... I'm sure I mentioned this before, but it is crucial to dial things in "from the top, down", or your're going to work in circles.

Another thing worth mentioning, is that if you're still doing all this testing on the same plugs, you need to at least pull and inspect them, in case they've been fouled-out during previous running... clean or replace them, so you KNOW you've got good plugs when you test the bike on the road.

Just out of curiosity, do you know that this motor has good compression in all four cylinders, and with good plugs in, have you ever done spark tests on all four, to verify you're getting a good blue/white spark? With any other issue at play, this will just get totally confusing.

Maybe I didn't emphasize this in my first post but the 126's and the 124's I intend to use are in terms of dynojet numbers. The DJ 126's are the same size as keihin 135's and DJ 124's are keihin 132's. Also, I've found that the dynojet needles significantly change the 7-13k operating range when compared to stock needles. As an example, when I didn't have the heat shield in, keihin 140 mains and DJ needles gave me a perfect 7-13k pull. When I tried stock needles, it was so lean it would barely run past 10k.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I recall from your threads, you're using factory pro needles right? How do those differ?

I've had the bike pulling real hard in all of its rpm ranges so I know the motor is good. With one of my setups it would barely run up to 7k but lift the front wheel off the ground past 9k. My problem has been I can't find the combo that gets all the rpm ranges correct at the same time. Also, I recently changed the plugs, they're good.

Thanks for the help man you always have good advice. If worse comes to worse, I'm putting in stock slide springs, stock needles, 135 mains, and a stock header and starting from there.

Now that is just annoying!!:icon_doh: Why in the world would they do something so confusing?!? :icon_doh::icon_doh:
Anyway, I did not know that about DJ mains, and no surprise, because I've always used Factory Pro stuff, and I only use Keihin main jets, for consistency, though Factory Pro does claim that their jet size designations are to be used for direct replacement of Keihin jets of the same size.

OK, now this is what we need to be focusing on, getting your mains correct first. Now that we got the cross-referencing of jet sizes out of the way, what you're saying above is close to what I was suggesting, which is working in the range of 138 to 142 (Keihin sizes :D).
If 140's were giving you a perfect pull, then get back to those - did you by chance also run 138 and 142, and found 140 to be "the sweet spot"? Anyway, mains first, so if 140 gives you a rocketing from 7,000 to 13,000, then put 'em back in, and forget 'em... now, work on your needle jet circuit.

Bear in mind, and I know I'm being repetitive here, but putting the 140s back in, to get your top end stout, might very well cause what was working at some point with low-end and mid-range, to need adjustment - personally I would start with the clip position in the middle, with the shim, and focus now only on hard pulls from 5,000 to 7,000. By the way, how many positions are on the DJ needles?
So, ride the bike, and see how the needle position feels, and take your best guess at whether you're rich or lean, from 5K to 7K. This is not easy, and if you're not well versed in "feeling this out", you might guess wrong, but if your change makes it worse, just go the other way until you stop improving with each change.

It's true that the stock needles could be more of a challenge, and could take a lot of shims to get things right, that's why the aftermarket needles have the variable clip positions, and you can still use/lose a shim, in conjuntion with a raising or lowering of clip position, to make smaller changes.
I can't make any comparison to the DJ needles, but I hear they are slimmer, with regards to the diameter/taper, which allows a bigger "hit" of fuel when the slide first starts opening. Some have complained about the "driveability" of the bike, due to this slimmer taper, and most of those that I've read about, that went from the DJ to Factory Pro Needles, were pleased with the change... in short, I've heard a lot of complaints about DJ needles, and I don't think I've heard any about the Factor Pros.

Yes, I use Factory Pro needles, and they don't seem that far removed from stock, with regards to the overall diameter and taper, but they seem to have a smoother tip, which would allow a smoother flow of fuel perhaps - the main advantage to me is the ease of adjustability.


Carb tuning can be a royal pain, but if you only make one change at a time, start with the main circuit and work your way down, and stay consistent with other aspects of setup (same header/can, same air filter, good plugs at all times), it will work out eventually!

It bothers me to lol, I wish they'd go by keihin numbering

You unfortunately omitted the most important part of my quote, the "when I didn't have the heat shield in" part. After putting in the heat shield the bike ran completely different. As squale147 pointed out in one of my earlier threads, the absence of a heat shield creates turbulence and strange jetting confusion. After installing the heat shield, 140s were wayyyy too rich, the 135s (DJ 126s) are still even too rich. I haven't yet found which mains create the best 7-redline pull with the heat shield installed. I'm hoping 132s (DJ 124s) will be my answer.

135s are too rich for the stock filter but too lean for the K&N. It stands to reason that 132s with the stock filter then should be right.

6. They recommend starting on the second position from the top for f2s.

I've heard the same thing. I would not have purchased a DJ kit, its just what my bike came with

Yep you're right, I'll go down to 132s (DJ 124s) next. If those are still too rich I'll try 130s (DJ 122s). Thanks again for all the help, I should have time to pull the carbs by mid next week. I'll try the 132s and report how it goes.

With the DJ 126s it pulls hard from 9000 and up, but you have a flat spot around 8000. This is the needle transition point. It sounds like a lean spot rather than a rich spot. Try raising your needle by moving the clip down one or even two slots. If it gets worse then you need to raise your clip up to lean it out. I lean (no pun) towards the lean condition, as it runs crisp and clean up to 8000. Tuning is fun without an AF meter. Old school

You really think its lean? I think its rich because I had the same problem with 140 mains but intensified. Like instead of having the flatspot from 8-10k it was more like 8-11.5k then it ripped hard to 15k (I know I shouldn't take it that high). Also, right now it doesn't pull hard from 9000 up its more like from 10,000 up. I'll try raising the needle clips and see if that helps. Thanks for the advice, thats a good idea to try toying with the needle clips first, I didn't think of that because of how on point my 5-7.5k is

Well juggling in my head whether its rich or lean from 8-10k a lightbulb went off. Why don't I run it with the choke on and see what happens? Am I right? If with the choke on it pulls from 8-10k I will have discovered it's lean right?

Pulled a lot better with the choke on, gonna lower by 2 positions and try it

I was going to suggest that, but I've found that when you're diangosing issues that high in the rev range, even with a choke circuit that you know works, it has little affect on that operation... I know that doesn't seem to make sense, but it's just what I found when trying to use that as a troubleshooting help... and I'm not saying don't try it, maybe it will work for you, and you've got nothing to lose!

It's really hard to convey in words how to tell if it's lean or rich, for me, it's just something I've learned over the years, and the only way for me to tell you for sure if it's one or the other, would be to ride the bike myself, which obviously can't be done in this case!!

One helpful item is this - let's say you're running in 3rd, 4th or 5th gear, with wide open throttle, and you approach an RPM where it begins to stutter, surge, etc... at that exact place, if you slightly back off the throttle, and begin to pick up speed again, then that is an indication of a lean setting for the fuel circuit you're running in.

Plug reading is another way, but you have to work very hard to diagnose the plugs correctly, for the range your working in - I'll explain:

Let's say you're diagnosing your main jet - the only way to truly get a good plug reading is to install new plugs and start the bike in a place where you can get right to a long stretch of road, imediately after warm-up, then run through your gears with wide open throttle through, let's say 4th gear, though this would vary depending on the length of your stretch, and your ability to run at high speeds safely - when you get to the top of whatever gear you can safely finish in, you shut the bike off, and use brakes to get down from speed, then let the bike cool and pull your plugs for inspection... this requires a lot of planning, as well as circumstances working out in your favor, like, little to no traffic on the road you're on, etc.
I would say the best place to manage this, woud be on an old runway, a closed portion of rideable highway, or a drag strip... it's not convenient, and is kind of labor intensive no matter what.
Again with this bit, I'm not saying that plug reading without the above scenario is useless, but that it is the most precise, reliable way to get an accurate reading for the given circuit you're trying to test

Anyway, blah, blah, blah, I hope you can get this sorted - I can't imagine having to ride regularly with fueling issues in any range... that would definitely take some of the fun out of things, for sure! :icon_sad: :(

Ok, so I started drafting my last reply hours ago, but was really busy with work, and just got the chance a little bit ago to post it, and missed your last post in the meantime.

Awesome, I'm glad the choke was a helpful troubleshooting aid, but keep in mind, 7500 to redline does involve the circuits below to some degree, but the ultimate limiting factor in metering of fuel when running wide open throttle in that rev range, is your main jets, not your needles - the rich/lean adjustments in this range need to be done with your main jet sizes, and when you get the "yank your arms out of there sockets" pull without the choke, then work on your needles, which governs your wide open throttle fueling from roughly 5,000 to 7,000.
I will not stop emphasizing the importance of working from the top down, you have got to get the mains right, before working on the lower circuits - yes, the lower circuits have a slight affect on the above circuits, mostly on transition, but for 7,500 to redline, it's main jet, main jet, main jet! :icon_mrgreen:

I don't know if I ever posted this link for you before, but it's been around for 1000 years, and it is good, accurate information:

CV Carb Tuning Procedures

Just ignore the step about float height, as the F2 floats are non-adjustable... that said, our floats can be damaged, and there is a procedure for checking the height, but if they're off, it requires replacing of the floats, since they cannot be adjusted.

I've found the same thing through all my trials and tribulations. Thats a good way of describing it.

I'd do that if I had a place to, but I don't. Theres no where around here I could do that. But great advice for anyone else reading or me for that matter if I ever end up in a rural area

Yea it does take away some of the fun

That's been my go to for this whole process. I thought the 135s (DJ 126s) I had in there were correct because of their good pull from 10-redline but I guess not.

So after moving the clips down two positions, its wayy to rich from 5-6k, and still has the 8-9.5k lean stumble but a lot less severe. I guess my next step is actually 138s and moving the clips back up. I already tried 140s and they were too rich. Thanks again for all the help guys. If 138s dont solve the problem I'm putting a stock header/slip on and stock jetting back in

After reading your post im starting to wonder if your issue is coming from the home made muffler you have on it.. i have tried to tune a few bikes with cut down mufflers and there always was an area of concern and never seemed to be worked out... if i am correct on this and you still want to run that muffler then look for the happy medium.. the best way i could explain is......................
An engine needs the highest flow velocity possible for quick throttle response and torque throughout the low-to-mid range portion of the power band. The same engine also needs the highest flow volume possible throughout the mid-to-high range portion of the powerband for maximum performance. This is where a fundamental conflict arises. For "X" amount of exhaust pressure at an exhaust valve, a smaller diameter header tube will provide higher flow velocity than a larger diameter tube. Unfortunately, the laws of physics will not allow that same small diameter tube to flow sufficient volume to realize maximum potential power at higher RPM. If we install a larger diameter tube, we will have enough flow volume for maximum power at mid-to-high RPM, but the flow velocity will decrease and low-to-mid range throttle response and torque will suffer (the "back-pressure" myth probably arises from a misunderstanding of these factors). This is the primary paradox of exhaust flow dynamics and the solution is usually a design compromise that produces an acceptable amount of throttle response, torque and horsepower across the entire powerband. ..

Huh, a lot of what you said went over my head :icon_doh:. Am I right in gathering that my 4-1 header and cut pipe are allowing too much flow on the top end possibly causing my problem? At this point would it be wise to just get a stock header and some kind of basic slip on?

Edit: re-read what your post a few times, I think I've decided to get a stock header. Anybody selling one?

In short, what squale posted up is part of an explanation on how different exhaust configurations "move the power band" around a bit - meaning there will always be a compromise between your low-end, mid-range, and top-end power - this is an age old conundrum for racing/tuning, and is the same for any internal combustion engine - it is one of the decisions that must be made by every tuner/mechanic/developer, that being, "where do I want my peak power, and which/how much of another power range do I want to sacrifice to have it there?"
If you want to read the whole thing in context, just search for some of the text he posted, and you'll find the rest of the total read, which is considerably more verbose, in various places on the internet.

Bottom line, cut down exhausts bring a challange, and personally, I am not a fan of extremely cut-down units, like the ones which basically amount to a car end pipe connected to the header, as there's no point then in running anything at all! Now I'm saying this without seeing what end can you're working with, but you should have no issue tuning your carbs with a header... maybe you could go with a little more conservative slip-on, if it's super-duper-uber short, but once again, I'm not sure what you're currently using.

I have tuned both of my bikes, with relative ease, in several changes of configurations, like with OEM header and OEM slip-on, then with 18 inch aftermarket slip-on, then with race header and same slip-on, then with the same race header and the slip-on shortened over 6 inches, etc.... I've run into no real problems with any of these changes, you just have to adjust accordingly.

Just how short is your muffler anyway? How much packing is in it, and how good is it's condition?

You know what, if you can do it, I can do it. I'll keep working with it, I don't have 200 bucks to drop on a new header/exhaust

It's really not that short, here it is:

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...83068303_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...14345683_n.jpg

Half of the can (in the middle) has packing, the rest does not. It is in pretty good condition and doesn't leak

JNSRacing another question for you. How much extra main jet did you need for the race header over stock? How about for the k&n filter over stock?

sorry for the long scientific theory of it but just wanted you to have a clear understanding of it... but like jns racing said there is alot of good info on the internet.... i also agree with what jns racing said about using several changes of configurations on my bikes and customers bikes and never had any issues that could not be corrected... so i think your set up can be tuned but like any other bike((carbs bikes especially)) your going to have to make adjustments and changes.... just like marc at factory says... carb tuning is a combination of science, art, intuition and and at times, a fair dose of wizardry. There is no dyno that "tells" one how to assemble or modify the carb to deliver proper power and response...

^well put

So what do you guys think of my next plan: right now with 135s and the clips on their second positions from the top, my idle-7.5/8k is perfect. from 8-10k it leans out and sputters, from 10-redline it pulls pretty hard but not as hard as I know it could. Next, I plan on upping to 138s and leaving the needle position alone. Sound good?

i think that sounds good...start there and report back and we will go from there...

Thanks, I ordered the 138s, should be here by later this week. I hope to tackle this Friday when I have time to work on it again

Ok, yeah, your muffler isn't that extreme at all... you should have no problem with eventually getting a good setup! :icon_clapclap::cool:

That sounds very good, especially the part about leaving the needle position alone - not necessarily because your mid-range is good at the moment, but because you have to get out of the habit of making multiple changes at once - like I've said before, you might have to change the circuits underneath again, but, this needs to occur after the main jets are finally selected.

I've been trying to hit on this for a while, because it causes people to work in circles, but since now I know you're aware of the Factory Pro carb tuning guide, and we're making reference to it, note that in section 2 he says "To get the best power at full throttle / 5k-7k rpm, adjust the needle height, after you have already selected the best main jet."

At the end of several sections, he says "Do not pay too much attention to the low-end richness when you are..."

The point he's making, and you'll find this is consistent with other carb tuning information for CV carbs, is to ignore the lower circuit until the above circuit is set, and then repeat as you move down to the pilots. He said "low-end richness", but it could be leanness as well - it is assumed that the under circuits will be rich, due to the baseline settings for pilot and needle jet circuits being set a touch rich, when you're first starting out, for safety's sake... rich doesn't damage an engine, it can just make it boggy, buy too lean can cause damage.

Anyway, you commented in an earlier post that what you're experiencing is consistent with the description I gave for getting to a stutter under wide open throttle, then picking up speed when you back off a touch, so I would definitly try your 138 (Keihin size, that is :D!)
When test riding, watch the tach dutifully, and just concentrate on your pull from 7K or 8K to redline, ignoring lean or rich conditions underneath, and focus on making the determination of whether that range is lean or rich... if you find you need to go up or down to try to find the best pull up top, make that change, but leave the rest alone until you get the top-end nailed!
Good luck! :icon_beerchug:

Man, it sucks to have to order jets - do you not have a powersports dealer in your area, or do they just not keep a good stock of Keihin round main jets?
There's only one "big" dealer in our area, and coincidentally, it's the one that's the closest to me and the easiest to get to anyway, but they keep a good enough stock that you can just pop in and usually get 4 of whatever size you need - typically about $4 a piece.

I sure hope so

You're lucky man, I've called every place in a 30 mile radius, and none of them have a stock of Keihin round mains. They all however seem to have the hex head ones :icon_shrug:

I woke up real early and pulled the carbs off again to try a new setup (couldn't wait for the 138s). I had already once tried 140 mains with the needle on the second position but without a heat shield. I've noticed that the absence of the heat shield doesn't affect idle-7k, only higher rpm operation. With 140s and the needles in the second position, it was wayy to rich in the midrange. So today, I again went against your advice :icon_no: only because I had already tried 140 mains with the clips on the second position lol. I tried 140s and the needle on the top position. When warmed up, the 8-10k lean spot was still there but not quite as noticeable. The mid-range was initially ok, but after riding for like a half and hour and heating up more, it became too rich and started bogging down from 5-6k.

So heres where I am. My last hope is 142 mains with the needle clips on the top position and no washer below, heres why: anything above 142, and I could never have an operable midrange because the needles are already in their leanest spot. With 145s or above, even with the needle clips on the top position and no washers below, it would always be too rich and unridable in the midrange (I've tried it with that setup before). If this final setup doesn't work, I could A: get factory pro needles, B: try stock needles/springs or C: install a stock header and more conservative slip on, but this exhaust setup and dynojet kit will have proven to be untunable if 142s and needle clips on top position with no washers underneath don't work.

Edit: unless maybe removing the glue from the slides could make the slides rise faster and fix my problem? Anyone think that might work? What is the real purpose of glueing the slides, and what rpm range is really affected by it?

To make sure it was still a lean problem, I put in my K&N filter. The 8-9.5k problem became worse but in the 9.5-redline range it pulled harder:icon_doh:. So with the stock filter its too rich from 9.5-redline but too lean from 8-9.5k. Man I just can't catch a break

You'll get it in time. I understand being anxious, I truly do, but as was stated earlier, you have to pace yourself.step back, take a breath. Its not gonna beat you. Just have to focus on one change at a time. Its more time consuming I know, I'm going through the same thing. However, I've found its less aggravating and makes me wanna set things on fire less, if I only work on one thing. You know a heat shield came on it. Start there. Heat shield on, now forget everything except top pull. Sucks, big time bad, if your like me you want it all done now. Plus all the info running through your head. But if you keep jumping, you won't get anywhere and will spend unnecessary time and money that could be spent elsewhere.
Just my two cents cause I've been where you are. Pick a base and stay there. Doesn't matter your base just pick one and stick. Write it down if it makes it easier. It does for me. Good luck, you'll get it.

Thats good advice man thanks, I have been writing down a lot of notes. In any case, I guess I found my main jet with the 140 because it's too lean from 7.5-9.5k but too rich from 9.5k-redline. So what's the next step then? Lol, the carb tuning guide doesn't have anything to say about what I'm experiencing

Well, the truth is this really shouldn't be this much of a pain to accomplish, so I've got some final thoughts on it.

Firstly, without a doubt, with headers and a higher flowing pipe, it would seem that it would need a touch more fuel in the mid-range than at stock settings, at least by just a touch, so with the needles at the lowest position (highest clip setting), I'm wondering if it's possible that you're mis-diagnosing the mid-range as rich, when it's actually lean?!?
It can be hard to tell, and is very hard to convey in words, but I would say use the main jet that gives you the best pull from 7500 to redline, and maybe try experimenting with richer needle settings.. for example, with the Factory Pro needles, the recommended baseline is in the middle, while you dial in the mains.

Now that brings us to the other thought I had, which is the changes to the mid-range, advised by Dynojet. Personally, I have no experience with the DynoJet needles - only OEM and Factory Pro - so it definitely makes it impossible for me to say "use this setting and go with it", and it end up being really darn close... I've never used their needles, and do know that they are considerably different than OEM, beyond just adjustability.
Also... slide modifications... with both of my bikes, I have found no issue with mid-range power and response, whether with stock headers or race headers, or with OEM needles vs. the Factory Pro needles, so I have not even considered modifying the slides.

Basically what I'm saying is that unless there is some other aspect of the fueling or ignition system that is not at status quo, then it would sure seem that the slide modification, coupled with the DynoJet needles, is what's making this far more complicated than it should be. Otherwise I've really got no ideas... to me, this is usually really easy stuff! :icon_denk: :confused:

I was wondering the same thing, but I know its a rich problem because of all the different combos I've tried. As an example, with the 135s and needle clip in the 2nd from top position, the mid range was perfect. When I lowered the clip, the mid range got screwed up. When I tried 140s with the needle clip in the second position the mid-range was real bad, but with the clips in the top position it got better.

Hey man thanks again for all the help, you've given me some real solid advice.

Just got off the phone with someone from dynojet. He said it's my exhaust setup, that with what I described, my exhaust is un-tunable and I will never get it right. He told me something I don't quite understand though. He said the dynojet-keihin conversion chart is wrong and that dynojet uses the same sizes. He also said that gluing the slide hole shut wouldn't have any effect on my 7.5-9.5k problem. According to him, the purpose of gluing it shut is to prevent slide fluttering.

Next step I guess is a stock header/slip on, stock slides, stock slide springs, 138 mains and stock needles. Who wants to buy my header/pipe? lol

Hmmmmm... un-tunable with their needles, maybe... I'm skeptical!

Interesting, but I'm wondering what this says about their advice?!?

Well, maybe you should give the stock needles a go, and try it with the main that worked the best, regardless of the settings underneath - obviously it's your time and your bike, but if it were me, the first thing I would remove from the equation, if anything, would be the DynoJet needles, and undoing the slide modification, if possible.

Anyway, if it does come down to reverting to OEM headers, I have two sets, if you need to buy one.

my thing is, i think you need ALOT of clarification on jet sizes. IF they use the same size, then it makes perfect sense why you are running lean cause well that would mean a 126 is actually a 126.....I also don't understand why they say your setup is untuneable. It isn't that drastic of a chop on the can. Also he misinformed you a bit concerning the plugged hole, if my memory on theory of cv carbs is correct. The plugged hole will actually cause the slide to move slower. So it would stand to reason, to me, it would not be so much for "flutter". Unfortunately, I have not come across anyone with good luck using dj kits. All say something about stutter in midrange ability. May want to call factory pro, or someone similar just to bounce feedback off of them and see what they suggest. Way I see it, a phone call to competitors is cheaper then new header/pipe.

I see JNS got me lol. I was trying to figure out how to politely put the throw away the dynojet stuff lol.

I feel the same way, I think the dynojet stuff is junk

Yea I can remove the glue, but I still have dynojet springs in there

All good points, I'm really unsure about the conversion stuff at this point

I forgot to mention, the guy at dynojet also said that at WOT the slides are already fully up by around 4000rpm. That just doesn't seem right. I thought the slides weren't all the way up until 10-11k. Anyone know?

Edit: gonna go remove the glue right now and see what that does

I have a special container that I would use for the DynoJet stuff, if I had any...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7315/9...2eedbc57_n.jpg

:icon_goofygrin: :D :icon_lol: :icon_goofygrin: :D :icon_lol:

icon_beerchug: I've just heard too many bad things about them when I was looking at kits for my bike. My po luckily just tuned it with stock stuff and spacers. Easy to correct.

LOL I feel the same way right now

I've heard bad things about them too. I would have never purchased a DJ kit or a 4-1 header. They just came with the bike. Stock needles, springs, and stock header are my next step.

Well, I removed the glue from the slides, it didn't affect anything as far as I could tell (went on a 30 or so min ride). I'm getting a stock header, stock springs, 138 mains, and stock needles (with one extra washer underneath).

Do you guys think the aftermarket midpipe I have will fit a stock header?

Not sure about the mid pipe, but that should be an easy fix.... Have you tried calling factory pro or someone else? Also jetsrus.com sells needles springs and the like... Just thinking may be more budget friendly then redoing everything.

Thanks man but I already have a bunch of the stuff. I figure that after I sell the 4-1 I shouldn't be too much in the hole. If my mid pipe is a different diameter, then how would I adapt it easily (I'm out at school without my highspeed cutter and welder)?

Just tried my new setup: stock header, same slip on, stock air filter, stock needles with 2 washers 140 mains, 40 pilots, and pilot screws turned out 2 1/8. When its real warm it has a 6.5-7k stumble, and a 7.5-11k stumble. From 11-redline it pulls moderately hard. When not as warm (like a quarter on the gauge), the 6.5-7k stumble is intensified and it will barely get past 7.5k at all. So both stumbles must be lean stumbles.

I'm starting to think this thing has a big bore kit or aftermarket cams or something. It would make sense, I got it from a real sketchy guy who I think might have stolen it (maybe from someone who installed those parts), but theres no way to tell because it has a legit title.

I guess next I'll try the 150 mains I have laying around. Can't hurt huh? What do you guys think?